Violence vs free speech

**Vince Tortelli** · Posted On: 9/13/2012 9:37pm

Originally Posted by Styygens

I totally agree that something very weird is going on here. And I can't shake the feeling that whatever it is, it will get even weirder before we're done.

Here's my question: Why is it, after that whole kerfluffle in Iran during the Carter years, plus the widescale happy funtime shindigs going on in Egypt, Syria, Iraq, etc., that the U.S embassies in the Middle East, which are always the ones that got stormed and set on fire during these things, aren't put togather like the results of out of control building contest between a toddler Perturabo and Dorn that consumed the entire Segmentum Obscura's supply of Tinker Toys and Legos for three years in a row?

I get that we're hurting for money, but keey-ripes! How many times does this have to happen before the costs of constructing a new embassy and training new personnel outweigh those of concrete, razor wire, search lights, etc?

**CNagy** · Posted On: 9/13/2012 10:04pm

Also **** people who kick hornet nests knowing that they aren't the ones going to get stung. Yes, it's barbaric to get so bent out of shape about a movie that you end up rioting and killing people, but this isn't a brand new fucking discovery.

The details that are coming out paint a picture that Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, a.k.a. Erwin Salameh, a.k.a. Mark Basseley, a.k.a Yousseff M. Basseley, a.k.a. Nicola Bacily, a.k.a. Sam Bassiel, a.k.a. Sam Basselley, a Coptic Christian and felon (intent to manufacture methamphetamine in 1997, probation violation in 2002, bank fraud in 2010, and the terms of his parole forbid him to use computers or the internet without his probation officer's approval until 2016) posed as "Sam Bacile," pretending to be an American Israeli backed by 100 Jewish financial donors, produced a film called Desert Warrior, edited and dubbed it into Innocence of Muslims, and worked with extremists Steve Klein and Terry Jones to promote the movie. So basically we have a Christian felon pretending to be a Jew for the purposes of inciting Muslims to riot.

**** that guy. I'm all for "I disagree with what you say but I will defend your right to say it," except when you are talking **** for the explicit purpose of incitement. Seriously, **** that guy.

**mike321** · Posted On: 9/13/2012 10:15pm

On a practical level, how are we going to have free speech unless their is "incitement"?

In any case, I see no reason to regulate people's speech in the US because of the beliefs of people in other countries.

**CNagy** · Posted On: 9/13/2012 10:22pm

You'd have to talk to a Constitutional scholar about that. The Supreme Court limits 1st Amendment protections in the case of "fighting words" and "incitement." When I say the video was intended to incite Muslims, I'm not claiming that it falls under the Court's Incitement doctrine--but this isn't necessarily a clear cut case of protected speech.

**tgace** · Posted On: 9/13/2012 10:52pm

S 240.08 Inciting to riot. A person is guilty of inciting to riot when he urges ten or more persons to engage in tumultuous and violent conduct of a kind likely to create public alarm. Inciting to riot is a class A misdemeanor.

In my state "inciting to riot" is a person urging people to burn down an embassy. As in saying "LETS BURN DOWN AN EMBASSY!!" Yeaaahhhhh!!

Incitement to riot is NOT a person posting a youtube video that offended a bunch of people enough for THEM to decide on their own to riot, and burn down an embassy building. That's entirely on them......

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

**simonifrius** · Posted On: 9/13/2012 10:53pm

Originally Posted by Devil

I disagree that people are hypocrites when they kill in the name of Christ or any other religious figure. Oh no. They're Christians to the core. They're acting according to their religious beliefs. Who are you to tell them they're wrong? Same thing with violent Muslims. You may disagree with their vision of Islam, but it doesn't make them wrong. They're following their religion. Their interpretation of their own religion isn't up for debate.

Actually, screw the high road on this one.

Who am I to tell "Christians to the core" that they're wrong when they do stuff like this? I'm a Christian. What they do is so far off of what Jesus taught that they ignore it completely. When people misuse the Bible and Jesus to mess up the world, it's my job to call them out on it, and if it's in my power, to stop them. Same logic as martial artists stepping up to stop Bullshido.

I do wish that the quiet, peace-loving Muslims I know would take a public stand against such things. But then, there is this:

http://imgur.com/a/tlCyI

**simonifrius** · Posted On: 9/13/2012 10:56pm

Originally Posted by tgace

S 240.08 Inciting to riot. A person is guilty of inciting to riot when he urges ten or more persons to engage in tumultuous and violent conduct of a kind likely to create public alarm. Inciting to riot is a class A misdemeanor.

In my state "inciting to riot" is a person urging people to burn down an embassy. As in saying "LETS BURN DOWN AN EMBASSY!!" Yeaaahhhhh!!

Incitement to riot is NOT a person posting a youtube video that offended a bunch of people enough for THEM to decide on their own to riot, and burn down an embassy building. That's entirely on them......

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

Sort of like buying a round for an AA meeting if you ask me.

But what the heck's an AA meeting at a bar for, anyway?

***battlefields*** · Posted On: 9/13/2012 11:15pm

Originally Posted by simonifrius

Sort of like buying a round for an AA meeting if you ask me.

But what the heck's an AA meeting at a bar for, anyway?

I've been in an AA meeting where I had to park my car in the parking lot of one of my old drinking holes. When I told an older sober member about my concern, he told me he was with a group that used to get together in the back room of a pub. If you want sobriety, you'll take it wherever you can get it and that includes the lion's den.

**CNagy** · Posted On: 9/14/2012 12:24am

Originally Posted by tgace

S 240.08 Inciting to riot. A person is guilty of inciting to riot when he urges ten or more persons to engage in tumultuous and violent conduct of a kind likely to create public alarm. Inciting to riot is a class A misdemeanor.

In my state "inciting to riot" is a person urging people to burn down an embassy. As in saying "LETS BURN DOWN AN EMBASSY!!" Yeaaahhhhh!!

Incitement to riot is NOT a person posting a youtube video that offended a bunch of people enough for THEM to decide on their own to riot, and burn down an embassy building. That's entirely on them......

Which would be why I said I did not claim it fell under Incitement to clarify that when I say his aim was to incite Muslims that I am referring to the dictionary definition of incite and not the legal definition. I should have more accurately used provoke.

**Hedgehogey** · Posted On: 9/14/2012 1:55am

Muslim kills a government official of a foreign power that killed dozens of civilians with airstrikes in his country: "Islam is 7th century bullshit."

Christian kills an abortion providing doctor: *sound of crickets*

Atheist does something horrible: "Well, there are bad people in every belief..."