Violence vs free speech

[simonifrius]

I'm thrilled you managed to meet some nice Muslims. Other members of this board have met Muslims who were shooting at them. I've met some Muslims who were nice to me, too. They'd probably still want to cut my balls off if I sketched a picture of their prophet though.

I've met Muslims who were shot up by the Taliban. I've met Muslims who were chased out of their homelands by other Muslims, despite how dedicated they are to Islam. That's why I say Islam isn't the real problem. There's always going to be some strawman for this crap. Even atheists have done this, for the same reasons you're giving about the silliness of religion. At its heart, it's the same thing done for the same reasons. "You don't believe what I do. You're wrong, so you need to go away."

And it's laughable that you would use crusade era Catholicism to justify the
extreme nature of Islam.

Justify? I was condemning these actions. I'm not qualified to comment on the nature of Islam. But I can, without threatening my own beliefs, logically separate these actions from Islam, because Islam is just the excuse used for murder. I know that when people kill in the name of Christ, they are hypocrites because I know enough of what the Bible says to understand that. I don't know enough of the Quran to say firsthand that it tells people to kill. But it wouldn't surprise me if it does. That said, I do know enough of it to know that most of the white people in the world I've heard cite the Quran were repeating something that was made up.

I won't say any religion is evil. I'm not sure I even believe in the concepts of good and evil. What every religion is though, is an organized way of ignoring logic and science. This makes them poisonous and threatens the advancement of mankind.

You don't even realize that what you just said is a religious statement, do you? Besides that, the paragraph contradicts itself.

[simonifrius]

*Cough* I shared enough.

Everyone's crying about an ambassador, which is a great example of human compassion and which is an innocent life that I'm sad for too, nobody should die at all.

Meanwhile my Palestinian mates Bassam and Ahmed whom by the way play Judo with me and are very skilled fighters that I have often made wisecracks at calling them "Dirty Palestinians" and "Rotten Easterners" all in good spirits are driven out of their homes all the way to Egypt because of Israeli war crimes.

And there's a THOUSAND others like them. Not a single worldly tear.

**** this I'm going to live in a cave from now on.

All I need is a sparring partner.

Can't fucking have even that because I broke a vertebra in my back and can't fight for a while.

Can I have a gym in a cave?

I have a buddy who just went to Palestine. I understand that both sides are doing bad things at times. That said, innocent Palestinians are being harrassed, assaulted, and killed daily. America sides with Israel, but doesn't hold them to account for the evil they are doing. And yes, it's because of religious reasons.

Here's a story that broke my heart. A Palestinian woman had a baby. In Palestine. The baby needed a doctor. Israel was enforcing a curfue at the time. She decided to ask the soldiers if she could get a doctor for her baby. They shot at her, so she went home. Later that night, the child got worse, so she went out again, and was shot at again.

The baby lived. Today he is 16. He's about two and a half feet tall, has no use of his arms and legs, is nonverbal, and is deeply loved.

There was a Christian pastor who came to speak at a church in America some time ago, to tell about the situation on the ground in Israel. After the service, a man came up to him, shook his hand and said, "I'm glad there are people like you out there. Those Palestinians are rotten." The man pulled out some money to give to the pastor.
"Actually," said the pastor, "I am Palestinian."
The man put his money away and walked on.

This is a common attitude I see towards Palestinians.

[mike321]

So? Share. Cryptic statement is ... cryptic.

When I first said this all the content o you post was not showing up on my phone, just the first line. I will go back and read.

[mike321]

*Cough* I shared enough.

Everyone's crying about an ambassador, which is a great example of human compassion and which is an innocent life that I'm sad for too, nobody should die at all.

Meanwhile my Palestinian mates Bassam and Ahmed whom by the way play Judo with me and are very skilled fighters that I have often made wisecracks at calling them "Dirty Palestinians" and "Rotten Easterners" all in good spirits are driven out of their homes all the way to Egypt because of Israeli war crimes.

And there's a THOUSAND others like them. Not a single worldly tear.

**** this I'm going to live in a cave from now on.

All I need is a sparring partner.

Can't fucking have even that because I broke a vertebra in my back and can't fight for a while.

Can I have a gym in a cave?

I agree that this is not the time to get weepy. After 9-11 I could not believe how weepy we were AFTER the initial mourning and WHILE we were sending troops into harms way in Afghanistan. I can't believe we won't generate a consistent message in support of free speech in the wake of these attacks. I also don't care if there was an underlying motivation for the attacks. If the attackers claim the reason was the movie, we need to respond to that. Also, there is obviously lots of problems in the area, but rejecting free speech is not going to help.

[Mister]

Free speech is a luxury.

Everyone's poor and life is shitty. (Underlined for emphasis)

Prices are high, crime is on the rise, EVERYONE is a lowlife willing to bribe and kiss-ass, rich or poor, doesn't matter.

Free speech? Good one.

Might as well have organic food and brown pasta for dinner, jog daily down the street that has no holes in which your ankles can sprain or break, and no trash or foul smells from which you can suffocate.

...Or speeding cars that can run you over, I tell you crossing the street in this shithole is like playing a game of frogger, and that frog has only one life, yours.

All the while doing Yoga and Pilates everyday to keep those buns in shape and live to be over 80.

Come on...People just don't andastand this ****.

Things are shitty.

And what the **** are Pilates?

I have lamented long and hard on this.

And there's only one solution.

A tactical nuke.

Or a non-tactical one I don't give a ****.

As an Egyptian citizen; I approve this message.

[Styygens]

Thanks for clearing that up.

This whole thing stinks to high heaven IMO, something very weird is going on here.

I totally agree that something very weird is going on here. And I can't shake the feeling that whatever it is, it will get even weirder before we're done.

[Devil]

I've met Muslims who were shot up by the Taliban. I've met Muslims who were chased out of their homelands by other Muslims, despite how dedicated they are to Islam. That's why I say Islam isn't the real problem. There's always going to be some strawman for this crap. Even atheists have done this, for the same reasons you're giving about the silliness of religion. At its heart, it's the same thing done for the same reasons. "You don't believe what I do. You're wrong, so you need to go away."



Justify? I was condemning these actions. I'm not qualified to comment on the nature of Islam. But I can, without threatening my own beliefs, logically separate these actions from Islam, because Islam is just the excuse used for murder. I know that when people kill in the name of Christ, they are hypocrites because I know enough of what the Bible says to understand that. I don't know enough of the Quran to say firsthand that it tells people to kill. But it wouldn't surprise me if it does. That said, I do know enough of it to know that most of the white people in the world I've heard cite the Quran were repeating something that was made up.



You don't even realize that what you just said is a religious statement, do you? Besides that, the paragraph contradicts itself.

You're right. Islam isn't the problem. Islam is just some bullshit that lives in people's minds. Just like Christianity and every other religion. The problem is the people who believe it.

Yes, atheists have done fucked up **** too. That's exactly the point I made in one of my previous posts.

I also agree with your point that it's ultimately a simple struggle about differing views. I made the same point.

I disagree that people are hypocrites when they kill in the name of Christ or any other religious figure. Oh no. They're Christians to the core. They're acting according to their religious beliefs. Who are you to tell them they're wrong? Same thing with violent Muslims. You may disagree with their vision of Islam, but it doesn't make them wrong. They're following their religion. Their interpretation of their own religion isn't up for debate.

And no, there is no religious influence in my statement. My mind is free from religion-based morality. I have examined my thoughts and viewpoints in detail for many years to make sure they were cleansed of religious crud. Rest assured, if my words ever resemble the values of any religion, it is pure coincidence. And there is no contradiction in my words.

Like Mister, I am onboard with the nuclear option.

[Colin]

You're right. Islam isn't the problem. Islam is just some bullshit that lives in people's minds. Just like Christianity and every other religion. The problem is the people who believe it.

**** religion.

[simonifrius]

I disagree that people are hypocrites when they kill in the name of Christ or any other religious figure. Oh no. They're Christians to the core. They're acting according to their religious beliefs. Who are you to tell them they're wrong? Same thing with violent Muslims. You may disagree with their vision of Islam, but it doesn't make them wrong. They're following their religion. Their interpretation of their own religion isn't up for debate.

Fair enough.

And no, there is no religious influence in my statement. My mind is free from
religion-based morality. I have examined my thoughts and viewpoints in detail
for many years to make sure they were cleansed of religious crud. Rest assured,
if my words ever resemble the values of any religion, it is pure coincidence.
And there is no contradiction in my words.

re·li·gion
[ ri líjjən ]

1. beliefs and worship: people's beliefs and opinions concerning the existence, nature, and worship of a deity or deities, and divine involvement in the universe and human life

2. system: an institutionalized or personal system of beliefs and practices relating to the divine

3.personal beliefs or values: a set of strongly-held beliefs, values, and attitudes that somebody lives by

Some would argue that you are religious, based on what you've said.

[simonifrius]

I dislike semantics and arguing over wording. I put that last post to explain what I was saying. If you aren't religious, or consider yourself not to be so, I have no issue with that.