223989 Bullies, 3956 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 1 to 10 of 41
Page 1 of 5 1 2345 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Res Judicata is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,633

    Posted On:
    7/21/2011 5:24pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Sumi Otoshi/magic judo

    I threw someone with sumi otoshi the other night and I had one of those brief moments of "oh, that's what Judo is supposed to be." It was an accident, more than anything else, and I certainly had never been taught sumi otoshi. I had intended to do ko soto gake from kenka yotsu. My opponent, a black belt, stepped forward to do uchi mata. Just as he did so, I pulled him with left(lapel) hand. I intended to sweep or block his heel with my left foot. Instead, I ended up planting my left foot, reversing his motion with my hands and hips, dropped my hips and threw with just my hands (I think I had an armpit grip with my right; I don't remember). Neither of us knew what happened; it felt effortless, like magic. It's the feeling Aikidoka chase but rarely achieve. My partner said, that was Judo

    And, no, I don't think I could do it again on purpose.

    Anyone else have any favorite, magic moments of, not Judo, but Judo.
  2. judoka_uk is offline
    judoka_uk's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    England
    Posts
    4,618

    Posted On:
    7/21/2011 5:38pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A while back I was doing randori with this 15 year old who's an annoying little **** and I went in to do O soto gari, but I... well I can only describe it as... I forgot to sweep.

    I know.

    How can you be such a retard that you forget to sweep in O soto gari, but I did, anyway I ended up throwing him using just my hands and without any leg or sweep action. At the time I put it down to just one of those weird moments and thought no more about it, but looking back I guess you could sort of call it a 'sumi otoshi', although if asked 'have you ever thrown anyone with sumi otoshi' I would probably answer no.

    It also sounds quite a bit like your experience where you meant to reap, but just... kind of... didn't.

    I think I'm reasonably good at countering O soto gari with my hand action, because I manage to even off balance my coach doing it. Although once I get tired that stops happening and it starts going back to matrix mode where the world slows down, I'm horizontal 6ft off the ground and then whack I'm on the mat... again.

    Hedge has a theory that what I call 'twist downs' a.k.a failed attacks countered by a purely hand action to rotate uke onto their back are in fact examples of uki otoshi and sumi otoshi, I'm not convinced, but I can see where he's coming from.

    Personally I've felt the only moments I've done 'pure Judo' have been from footsweeps and a few other, very rare occasions. Two of which were when I threw with left uchi mata from double lapel twice in one randori there were effortless and amazing, never repeated that.

    And one time I threw with right handed O soto gari form normal grips where I just stepped in and reaped the leg and felt no resistance, the other guy hit the mat so hard he had to go and sit down for 5 minutes.

    Honestly though, those moments of pure skill, where you catch someone and its effortless are what keep me in Judo.

    They are incredibly rare for me as I'm **** at Judo, but when you get them, then well, its better than pilling in a chick.

    Just awesome.
    Last edited by judoka_uk; 7/21/2011 5:43pm at .
  3. CrackFox is offline
    CrackFox's Avatar

    You have to work the look.

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Bat Country
    Posts
    3,076

    Posted On:
    7/21/2011 5:44pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've done tai-otoshi properly three times in my life. Each time I think I was as surprised as the guy I threw.
  4. judoka_uk is offline
    judoka_uk's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    England
    Posts
    4,618

    Posted On:
    7/21/2011 5:46pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've only done Tai otoshi properly twice in my life, so you're winning, you bastard...
  5. kikoolol is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Sainte-Foy, Quebec
    Posts
    398

    Posted On:
    7/23/2011 1:59am


     Style: BJJ, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    A while back I was doing randori with this 15 year old who's an annoying little **** and I went in to do O soto gari, but I... well I can only describe it as... I forgot to sweep.

    I know.

    How can you be such a retard that you forget to sweep in O soto gari, but I did, anyway I ended up throwing him using just my hands and without any leg or sweep action. At the time I put it down to just one of those weird moments and thought no more about it, but looking back I guess you could sort of call it a 'sumi otoshi', although if asked 'have you ever thrown anyone with sumi otoshi' I would probably answer no.

    It also sounds quite a bit like your experience where you meant to reap, but just... kind of... didn't.
    One time some guy I was doing randori with went for a crappy o-soto-gari with no kuzushi, and I wanted to kaeshi-waza him onto his ass. I was meaning to do o-soto-gaeshi but for some reason I froze as he was going in and I upended him without reaping. It felt like I clotheslined the guy, exactly the way I had learned sumi-otoshi.

    I was told it was all strength, which it probably was.

    For a judo moment not involving sumi-otoshi, I'd have to say the time where I threw a +100kg player as a -73kg, with soto-makikomi of all things. I then proceeded to get a bird's eye view of the dojo. The thing that made it so special for me is that I never do soto-makikomi and after I threw, I didn't even know with what I threw. I just remember throwing, landing, and a round of applause.
    Last edited by kikoolol; 7/23/2011 2:06am at .
  6. Hedgehogey is offline
    Hedgehogey's Avatar

    Tsun-Derrorist

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    5,330

    Posted On:
    7/23/2011 3:48am

    supporting member
     Style: ^_^

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hedge has a theory that what I call 'twist downs' a.k.a failed attacks countered by a purely hand action to rotate uke onto their back are in fact examples of uki otoshi and sumi otoshi, I'm not convinced, but I can see where he's coming from.
    Came from an experience in my first year of judo in which I threw a brown belt I normally couldn't by stepping back against his high collar grip and kneeling while pressing down with both hands on his elbow. Although I knew vaguely what it looked like i'd never been taught either throw.

    I theorize that sumi/uki otoshi as taught in nage no kata (as an attack in itself) is incorrect but rather that it should be taught as a counter, which is where it usually happens. I have footage of a beginner teammate ate his third tournament spontaneously discovering it in the middle of a match that I can upload if you want.


    "The only important elements in any society
    are the artistic and the criminal,
    because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
    can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany

    RENDERING GELATINOUS WINDMILL OF DICKS

    THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST NON-EUCLIDIAN SPLATTERJOUST EVER

    It seems that the only people who support anarchy are faggots, who want their pathetic immoral lifestyle accepted by the mainstream society. It wont be so they try to create their own.-Oldman34, friend to all children
  7. Hedgehogey is offline
    Hedgehogey's Avatar

    Tsun-Derrorist

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    5,330

    Posted On:
    7/23/2011 6:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: ^_^

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I uploaded the video.



    If you asked an experienced player or ref what throw that was, if they knew nothing of the players, they'd say uki or sumi otoshi.


    "The only important elements in any society
    are the artistic and the criminal,
    because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
    can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany

    RENDERING GELATINOUS WINDMILL OF DICKS

    THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST NON-EUCLIDIAN SPLATTERJOUST EVER

    It seems that the only people who support anarchy are faggots, who want their pathetic immoral lifestyle accepted by the mainstream society. It wont be so they try to create their own.-Oldman34, friend to all children
  8. judoka_uk is offline
    judoka_uk's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    England
    Posts
    4,618

    Posted On:
    7/23/2011 6:44pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm a reasonably 'experienced player' and I wouldn't say it was a sumi otoshi or uki otoshi. I would just call it an amorphous te waza. In the same way as you would call a 'hippy' Tai otoshi an amorphous Koshi waza.

    Not everything needs to be classified down to a specific technique.
  9. BKR is online now
    BKR's Avatar

    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry, Idaho
    Posts
    4,339

    Posted On:
    7/23/2011 7:39pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehogey View Post
    I uploaded the video.



    If you asked an experienced player or ref what throw that was, if they knew nothing of the players, they'd say uki or sumi otoshi.
    That was not Sumi or Uki Otoshi.

    Anyway, the whole idea of "twist downs" was started by G. Gleeson. George Weers also has written about Sumi and Uki Otoshi being more common as counter throws, and he probably got the idea from Gleeson, or Phil Porter, who was a big Gleeson fan and nicked a lot of his stuff and presented it as his own.

    "Twisting down" and "otosu/otoshi" are not the same thing. Seoi Otoshi doesn't involve any twisting down, neither does Tai otoshi. Obviously, one can salvage something from either throw by doing so, though.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  10. BKR is online now
    BKR's Avatar

    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry, Idaho
    Posts
    4,339

    Posted On:
    7/23/2011 8:00pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Back on theme, I watched my Japanese instructor throw a 6'7" 300 lb black belt with Sumi Otoshi in randori in the old combatives room at Texas Christian University during one of our weekly torture sessions. My home dojo sensei and were on break from our 45 minutes of continuous randori (9 5 minute rounds in a row as "post man")...in my case rude ass beating for 45 minutes...we both said, at the same time, "Sumi Otoshi, he just threw him with fucking Sumi Otoshi".

    As for myself, I don't remember ever throwing anyone with Sumi Otoshi, but I've had plenty of "Now that's Judo experiences?.

    One that I remember is throwing a huge guy, former Idaho Greco Roman state champ (high school) in randori with Seoi Otoshi to one knee. I don't know how it happened, but he flew over me and landed in a perfect side ukemi position. It was aikido-esque. He got up with his eyes very wide and just kind of shook his head.

    I threw a guy in a shiai earlier this year, in two different matches, with ashi barai, first time with a one handed grip, the second match with no grip, but I did touch him hands but didn't grip. He flew and landed in side fall position without me touching him.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
Page 1 of 5 1 2345 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.