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  1. ty5 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2012 6:51pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Judo club closed

    Recently the local Judo club which I went to has closed down after having been going for over 20 years due to lack of members.

    There was a heavy turn over of members as people would train for a while and then get disillusioned, most people said this was due to their lack of progress and a lack of proper teaching structure.

    The main instructer was a 5th dan and has been teaching for some years, and though a competent practioner he did not seem to have much of an idea on how to stucture classes so that students progressed in a structed way, how to support students in the learning process and he had zero motivational skills.

    He and the other instructer could not see why the attendance numbers where falling, they did not try to advertise it at all or proactively get new members in, I don't think this occured to them or that they would know how to.

    If the teaching style was different I think there would have been a lot lower turnover of students, as most still wanted to do Judo but got pissed off with the teaching structure.

    From others peoples experience is this sort of thing common in British Judo?
  2. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/06/2012 7:01pm

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     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ty5 View Post
    From others peoples experience is this sort of thing common in British Judo?
    Yup, its part of what's killing Judo in the UK.

    We have people who are qualified to teach, but don't know how to teach or we have people who aren't qualified to teach and know how to teach or people who aren't qualified to teach and don't know how to teach.

    Some progress is being made by the UKCC, but they are laughably easy and don't demand enough of prospective students, nor test/ stretch them enough as part of the course.

    We need serious efforts to bolster and support adult beginner Judo. We need a massive and painful overhaul of the coaching syllabus and qualification system. We need root and branch reform of grass roots clubs. We need a radical refocus from the self-serving clique-est interests of the current BJA elite.

    Without radical change British Judo will continue its downward spiral into irrelevancy and we'll join the Americans as the 'Who? Oh lol, them!' of international Judo.
  3. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    6/07/2012 4:31am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Without radical change British Judo will continue its downward spiral into irrelevancy and we'll join the Americans as the 'Who? Oh lol, them!' of international Judo.
    We are a nation of Judoka who own cats, no doubt about it.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  4. itwasntme is online now
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    Posted On:
    6/07/2012 7:02am

    supporting member
     Style: being less stupid

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Without radical change British Judo will continue its downward spiral into irrelevancy and we'll join the Americans as the 'Who? Oh lol, them!' of international Judo.
    You're almost funny enough to write for the BBC!

    Edit: ty5, I'm sorry your club closed down dude. Hopefully you will find another that suits you soon.

    Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
    Last edited by itwasntme; 6/07/2012 7:31am at .
    Start a training log!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    i really think that those who can't get their head around the bowing thing (because their angry sky daddy will punish them) don't deserve judo. life is full of choices, and if your bronze age superstitions are holding you back, so be it.
  5. ty5 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/09/2012 5:41pm


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There was another smaller Judo club locally, but after emailing the coach he told me that this club is about to close as well, for fucks sake.

    Judoka_UK, yes those are very valid points, I think there is an issue with professionalism with the way that Judo is taught in the UK and also a unhealthy aversion to admitting to a profit motive for Judo coaches.

    For example, a few years ago I used to do Wing Chun, now leaving aside the fact that Wing Chun is a load of tosh the way that it was taught was very good, the teacher knew each of his students, tracked progress, applied teaching methods well etc He also made money out of the classes.

    Where as my old Judo coach could barely remember peoples names and had no idea how to actually teach, and made no money out of the classes, or next to nothing after the hall rental.

    So this comparasion got me thinking about what peoples motivations are to teach and do the best people need an extra incentive to teach? To make some money, the profit motive.

    The only BJJ black belt that I know of in this county teaches BJJ as his full time job, he makes money and his teaching is highly rated.

    So not sure if all this rambling makes sense, but in essence in order for the best Judo black belts to get interested in teaching I think they should not be afraid to charge more per a class, Judo classes are always below market rates and I don't think that is healthy for teaching standards.
  6. dlloyd is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/11/2012 8:35am


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ty5 View Post
    There was another smaller Judo club locally, but after emailing the coach he told me that this club is about to close as well, for fucks sake.
    Where are you based?
  7. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/12/2012 8:29am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jwilde88 View Post
    You're almost funny enough to write for the BBC!
    As I'm not a member of the 4th International I can't work for Auntie Beeb.

    Quote Originally Posted by ty5 View Post
    Judoka_UK, yes those are very valid points, I think there is an issue with professionalism with the way that Judo is taught in the UK and also a unhealthy aversion to admitting to a profit motive for Judo coaches.

    For example, a few years ago I used to do Wing Chun, now leaving aside the fact that Wing Chun is a load of tosh the way that it was taught was very good, the teacher knew each of his students, tracked progress, applied teaching methods well etc He also made money out of the classes.

    Where as my old Judo coach could barely remember peoples names and had no idea how to actually teach, and made no money out of the classes, or next to nothing after the hall rental.

    So this comparasion got me thinking about what peoples motivations are to teach and do the best people need an extra incentive to teach? To make some money, the profit motive.

    The only BJJ black belt that I know of in this county teaches BJJ as his full time job, he makes money and his teaching is highly rated.

    So not sure if all this rambling makes sense, but in essence in order for the best Judo black belts to get interested in teaching I think they should not be afraid to charge more per a class, Judo classes are always below market rates and I don't think that is healthy for teaching standards.
    I love capitalism as much as the next man, but I think the perspective is flawed here its always presented as a altruism vs profit thing and that the two are diametrically opposed.

    I think this is a flawed way of looking at the problem. It assumes that everyone working 'not for profit' is a highly capable and caring person who has simply chosen to work for less out of altruism.

    This is not always the case and often people wind their way into the 'not for profit' sector, because they don't have the ability, drive and dedication to make it in the private sector. Thus have to rely on the safety nets of the public sector with jobs for life and the like.

    Bringing it back to Judo, before we stray to far away, the comparison between a BJJ black belt who opens up a BJJ club as a business and makes it his full time occupation and a Judo black belt who opens up a local club and runs it at a break even. Is more than just the attitude with which the two clubs are approached and managed. It is also the capability of the service providers and the value of the service being offered.

    Currently in the UK a BJJ black belt is like an Economics degree from a Russell group university whereas a Judo black belt is like an NVQ in hairdressing. The qualifications have vastly different market values and thus the business models they can access and the prices they can charge are vastly different.

    Judo as it stands can't be run on the same business lines as BJJ, because a 1st dan isn't the same level of qualification as a BJJ black belt, coaching standards are abysmal and the market is saturated.

    I'm afraid it comes back to coaching. We have to raise the standard of coaching make the entry level for the lowest coaching qualification 2nd dan or 3rd dan. Make coaching quals go beyond the technical to include minimum standards of physical fitness and literacy as well as pedagogy.

    We've tried dumbing down and it has only made things worse.

    Until we raise standards we can't charge more for what we do or run our clubs as businesses, because what we have to offer is of poor quality and there isn't a demand for the product.
  8. ty5 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/12/2012 1:10pm


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post

    Currently in the UK a BJJ black belt is like an Economics degree from a Russell group university whereas a Judo black belt is like an NVQ in hairdressing. The qualifications have vastly different market values and thus the business models they can access and the prices they can charge are vastly different.
    Nice analogy and that is exactly why I am not going to bother with other local Judo clubs but to give the full time BJJ club a go instead, as it is the same driving distance and with a monthly subscription is not even that expensive.

    It would be interesting to see the membership figures from the BJA over say a 10 year period, broken down in regions and by adults/childrens, to see what the membership trend is and also the turnover, as I vaguely remember reading that the turnover for adults is 80% leaving after 1 year.

    And yes you are right, as it stands most Judo clubs could not charge more.
  9. omoplatypus is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/12/2012 1:54pm

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     Style: BJJ/Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sounds like the limies are in the same boat as the yanks.

    At my old club, there are two coaches (San Dan) and one is a good coach for technique, but horrid at class structure, and the other is a decent judoka who is really only good for tournament prep.

    Sadly, the best instructor is an ikkyu who is to injured to do much and eventually just dropped out.

    There are a dozen places to do judo in this area, and only 2 are worth a damn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by it is fake View Post
    yeah, normally i'd get a quote, but couldn't be bothered.
  10. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2012 10:09am


     Style: Judo & BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's stories like this that make me very grateful for my club--my coach is skilled, has a wealth of experience, and is a good teacher. (Rokudan, 40+ years of experience, trained in Japan for four years, former national competitor, etc.) But I wonder what would happen to my club if something were to happen to him. Like a lot of Judo clubs, it's not run for profit. If it makes money that's by accident, I think. We don't advertise, etc.

    Newly minted shodan have no business running a Judo club. Of course, grade isn't everything: one of my coaches is a nidan who simply had no interest in grading further--he's 54 and got his Shodan at 16.
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