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  1. LesbianSeagal is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/18/2012 2:16am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Rusher View Post
    Although squats will strengthen your legs, they're actually a more powerful lower back exercise after you get any real weight involved, so suggestions for other leg exercises won't exactly fulfill the same role.
    You can train your lower back more directly with other exercises.
  2. Jack Rusher is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/18/2012 6:53am


     Style: ti da shuai na

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    Quote Originally Posted by LesbianSeagal View Post
    You can train your lower back more directly with other exercises.
    Some people like to say this. They're usually the same ones who think deadlifts are bad for the lower back. I've never met such a person who was particularly strong.
    “Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way” -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4
  3. Scrapper is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/18/2012 8:06am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I push 400+, and its a tough on my back as it is on my legs and ass. That's what makes it an awesome lift.

    I still deadlift though. Cuz gainz.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
  4. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/18/2012 12:21pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Rusher View Post
    Some people like to say this. They're usually the same ones who think deadlifts are bad for the lower back. I've never met such a person who was particularly strong.
    They usually don't understand the kind of intense isometric stabilization that's required when you load twice your body weight, squat down and then press it up. Or try to pull it from a dead stop on the floor. It's like the look I get when I tell people that heavy squats are some of the most intense ab exercises that I've ever done. If you haven't done it, you won't get it.

    My wife is a PT and a Pilates instructor. She doesn't get it.
  5. LesbianSeagal is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/18/2012 12:32pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Rusher View Post
    Some people like to say this. They're usually the same ones who think deadlifts are bad for the lower back.
    Idiots always say that certain exercises are "bad" when they do it wrong and **** themselves up. But deadlifts obviously do work the lower back more directly than squats, if both are done properly.
    Last edited by LesbianSeagal; 9/18/2012 12:36pm at .
  6. LesbianSeagal is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/18/2012 12:59pm


     Style: Freestyle scientific

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    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    They usually don't understand the kind of intense isometric stabilization that's required when you load twice your body weight, squat down and then press it up. Or try to pull it from a dead stop on the floor. It's like the look I get when I tell people that heavy squats are some of the most intense ab exercises that I've ever done. If you haven't done it, you won't get it.
    With "isometric" being the key word, vs. the isotonic involvement of exercises that work through the range of motion.
  7. Jack Rusher is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/18/2012 1:55pm


     Style: ti da shuai na

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    Quote Originally Posted by LesbianSeagal View Post
    But deadlifts obviously do work the lower back more directly than squats, if both are done properly.
    It depends on the squat. High bar and front squats have exactly the relationship to the deadlift that you mention, but the powerlifting style low bar squat that (I believe) this thread concerns is mechanically half way to a good morning — it really hammers the lower back. (This is why I usually do front squats plus deadlift rather than low bar plus deadlift).

    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    It's like the look I get when I tell people that heavy squats are some of the most intense ab exercises that I've ever done. If you haven't done it, you won't get it.
    I have had this exact conversation with so many PTs. If they don't squat heavy they just can't believe it.
    “Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way” -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4
  8. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/18/2012 4:13pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by LesbianSeagal View Post
    With "isometric" being the key word, vs. the isotonic involvement of exercises that work through the range of motion.
    I'm not sure why I would want to work primarily stabilizing muscles through their (quite small) range of motion under any significant load. I like some basic mobilization exercises, like cat-camel type, and I do them as part of my warmup. But no way I'm going to do that with any appreciable loading. I don't want too much lumbar flexibility.
  9. LesbianSeagal is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/18/2012 5:26pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapper View Post
    I push 400+, and its a tough on my back as it is on my legs and ass. That's what makes it an awesome lift.

    I still deadlift though. Cuz gainz.
    Yep I deadlift immediately AFTER squats, cuz then your lower back is already fatigued and you can get better gains without overtraining.

    Some guys say that if your lower back gets tired out faster than your legs during squats, then you should do leg-extensions first to fatigue your legs, then do squats.
    You have to train according to how your muscles go.
  10. LesbianSeagal is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/18/2012 5:45pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    I'm not sure why I would want to work primarily stabilizing muscles through their (quite small) range of motion under any significant load. I like some basic mobilization exercises, like cat-camel type, and I do them as part of my warmup. But no way I'm going to do that with any appreciable loading. I don't want too much lumbar flexibility.
    Stabilizing requires more than isometric strength for a squat. The more contractile strength you have in your lower back, the better you can control the weight, and so the more weight you can handle.
    The lower back has a normal 30-dagree range of motion, which isn't really "quite small."
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