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  1. #31
    Kambei Shimada's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    NO.

    'There is a serious flaw with the argument that sugar is okay in moderation. Humans don’t seem to be able to control themselves when it comes to sugar intake. And for good reason: Sugar has the effect of altering hormone response and brain function so that we are driven to eat more of it.'


    Pretty good article by one of the World's leading authorities on strength training.. http://www.charlespoliquin.com/Artic...Its_Worth.aspx
    Last edited by Kambei Shimada; 10/25/2012 7:39am at .

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kambei Shimada View Post
    Humans donít seem to be able to control themselves when it comes to sugar intake.
    This is over-generalisation and BS as far as the topic's concerned tbf - we're still talking post-training recovery, right?

    I'm not sure there are many posters on here who'd get home from training and turn into sugar junkies after a half pint of chocolate milk/fruit juice/anything with relatively high sugar content. Sugar isn't evil mate, as PSB (almost) pointed out, it all ends up as glycogen.

    If the glycogen in your muscles isn't replenished after training, your muscle tissue itself will start to be metabolised, so the quicker the glycogen is replenished, the better for your muscles. What's the fastest way of replenishing that glycogen? Sugar. See the published studies linked up there ^^.

  3. #33
    Kambei Shimada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thrutch View Post
    This is over-generalisation and BS as far as the topic's concerned tbf - we're still talking post-training recovery, right?

    I'm not sure there are many posters on here who'd get home from training and turn into sugar junkies after a half pint of chocolate milk/fruit juice/anything with relatively high sugar content. Sugar isn't evil mate, as PSB (almost) pointed out, it all ends up as glycogen.

    If the glycogen in your muscles isn't replenished after training, your muscle tissue itself will start to be metabolised, so the quicker the glycogen is replenished, the better for your muscles. What's the fastest way of replenishing that glycogen? Sugar. See the published studies linked up there ^^.
    Is it the quickest way? Perhaps. But that's not what the Op was asking.

    I would absolutely have a chocolate milk over something like a Gatorade but still.. I would make it myself. I would not endorse the cheap processed variety you can pick up in most supermarkets.

    Just cocoa and Milk is fine but that's not what most of you are talking about.(Cornflours/Cornsyrup, flavour enhancers, Barley Malt Extract and various processed sugars like Dextrose are all common in these products)

    My main issue is if your working out 4-5 times a week and your drinking the stuff you are actually going to be taking in more processed sugars than what is really 'healthy'.

    There are better ways.
    Sometimes I use Cocoa in smoothies, I'm certainly not against it.

    Also sugar is'nt the only thing you lose when you workout. There are better alternatives IMO.
    Last edited by Kambei Shimada; 10/25/2012 8:43am at .

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kambei Shimada View Post
    Is it the quickest way? Perhaps. But that's not what the Op was asking.
    He kind of was - "something about a time window with the metabolism of your muscles..."

    The OP, as I understand it, was asking whether it's necessary to take in proteins immediately after a workout to prevent muscle metabolism. The answer the thread has given is "no, but it is necessary to replenish the glycogen in your muscles pretty quickly, and drinking chocolate milk has been shown in studies to be an effective way of doing this"

    I would absolutely have a chocolate milk over something like a Gatorade but still.. I would make it myself. I would not endorse the cheap processed variety you can pick up in most supermarkets.

    Just cocoa and Milk is fine but that's not what most of you are talking about.(Cornflours/Cornsyrup, flavour enhancers, Barley Malt Extract and various processed sugars like Dextrose are all common in these products)
    Having a quick look at the main supermarkets' chocolate milk ingredients they're not too bad, same as the Morrissons' one - milk, cocoa/chocolate powder and sugar. None of the other stuff you are so scared of.

    My main issue is if your working out 4-5 times a week and your drinking the stuff you are actually going to be taking in more processed sugars than what is really 'healthy'.
    Taking in processed sugar isn't unhealthy in the context we're talking about, quite the opposite in fact.

    There are better ways.
    Sometimes I use Cocoa in smoothies, I'm certainly not against it.

    Also sugar is'nt the only thing you lose when you workout. There are better alternatives IMO.
    Well, no, nobody's saying it is. The point was just about replenishing glycogen and not metabolising muscle tissue. Are there better alternatives in terms of cost/convenience and taste? I'm not so sure.

  5. #35
    elipson's Avatar
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    From the Charles Poloquin article.

    If you need to replenish energy stores quickly after a very intense workout, glucose is the best choice, but from a body composition perspective it should be avoided.
    This whole debate really comes down to your fitness goals. For fat loss, cutting sugar is a necessary evil, but for those trying to gain mass, just eat everything. :)

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by thrutch View Post
    I had a check on the chocolate milk in my fridge (Morrisson's own brand) last night, seemed healthy enough for what it is. Just semi-skimmed milk, cocoa powder and sugar. 78kcal/100ml. I can certainly think of worse ways to get calories back into the system after training.



    bad pseudo science? really? what's the non "bad pseudo science" method of quickly replacing glycogen in muscles other than consuming short-chain hydrocarbons?
    You can consume the long chain ones

  7. #37

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    So to conclude..i don't "have" to consume protein immediately after the workout to benefit from the best muscle growth and strength, but i best consume some carbs to replace the used glycogen. And can consume proteins at any time?
    It is true that if the body is lacking sugars (mainly for brain and blood cells that can't use the fatty acids, they can use ketone bodies if you are starving but that is a different story) it will break down muscle tissue (not talking about the glycogen that **** is gone after 12 to 24 hours) and use those amino acids that build the proteins as replacement to glucose (can't remember how) for the brain and blood cells, and by doing so you lose muscle mass rapidly. So by preventing glucose lose you delay muscle break down, but does than mean you build the muscle? probably not without sufficient protein intake. I am still in doubt about the necessity of protein intake so close after a work out to built big ass muscles, so i'll try at least to replace some of the glycogen i spent.
    The reason IMO is that the actual rebuilding of the muscles is done at night, as we sleep, Growth Hormones are released and there is a whole complicated process involved, the one thing that i'm pretty sure about is the necessity of sleep to actually start the process. And, we can't really store Amino Acids like we do fat and glucose (well we store them in big muscles i guess). This makes me think that it is actually more important to eat enough proteins before you sleep, so your body will have enough building blocks to use when it is actually building (sleep).
    Any thoughts ?

  8. #38

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    It's broscience

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruiser View Post
    It's broscience
    Well i am a scientist (grad student) and a bro to my bros, so yea. But i forgot to thank you for your informative post!

  10. #40
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    Re: Protein Shakes immediatly after workout?

    There was an interesting study done a few years ago that was mentioned in muscular development (I think, maybe another publication), where researchers gave subjects one of three beverages immediately following identical workouts:

    1. Water
    2. Protein shake
    3. Protein/carb shake

    All three test groups showed ample recovery, and even muscular strength gain with hypertrophy, with the protein/carb group showng a very slight, but statistically noticeable increase beyond the other two groups.

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