Question for Her Majesty's Servants on Bullshido

**slamdunc** · Posted On: 8/20/2012 6:29am

Originally Posted by Tom .C

So Belgium trains their officers to just shoot deserving perps just a little bit?

I don't know how they train there, but I do know how we train here. Partly due to budgets and partly due to officers that aren't confident, it is like pulling teeth to get (MOST) cops to the range for their qualification. If for some reason, an officer who is a decent shot had to go to court and answer 'Why didn't you just shoot the knife out of his hand?", it would be self-defeating.

I hope whatever they are doing in Belgium works for them.

**dougguod** · Posted On: 8/20/2012 6:35am

Originally Posted by Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs

in the above case the attacker would get hit in the knife holding hand OR in the foot

No, he wouldn't. Under the adrenaline dump of facing an armed person very few beat cops are going to have the skill to hit a target as small and mobile as a hand or foot. Even attmpting to do so in a populated area where stray shots could hit bystanders within hundreds of yards of the encounter would be irresponsible.

**slamdunc** · Posted On: 8/20/2012 6:38am

Originally Posted by bob63

http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/Ment...ail/story.html
recent and relevant. On a tablet so pasting text is a pain.

I see the relevance in this story. In my agencies policy on Taser deployment, the need for deadly-force cover is addressed, and was appropriate here.

V. DEPLOYMENT

2. When an Officer approaches a subject with the intent to deploy the Taser®, an additional Officer should approach whenever possible to provide lethal cover, should it become necessary for the protection of life. Officers should continue to issue verbal commands (whenever practical), during and after the deployment of the Taser®.

The officers successfully used a less-lethal option in this case, and that is always desirable, just not always possible.

**scipio** · Posted On: 8/20/2012 6:56am

Originally Posted by judoka_uk

Original quote definitely isn't true, because everyone in the UK knows the police aren't actually there to fight crime.

The police's job is to catch people doing 72mph on motorways and arrest people who try and stop gypsies setting up camp on their land.

Oh dear - just got done for speeding did we??

**bob63** · Posted On: 8/20/2012 7:00am

I.m.h.o. Most policy is written by street shy individuals seeking evidence for career advancement. In a live dynamic situation it is rare to have appropriate resources to comply with policy.

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 8/20/2012 7:03am

Originally Posted by scipio

Oh dear - just got done for speeding did we??

Nope, not got a single point on my licence.

I challenge you to find a single member of the public who doesn't think the police spend to much time trying to catch motorists and not enough time catching burglars, muggers and rapists.

BtW I don't blame individual policemen, although I'm sure there are some lazy cowards who prefer going after 'soft' targets than proper criminals.

I blame the culture and politics that directs police to not do what the public wants them to do.

**scipio** · Posted On: 8/20/2012 7:08am

Originally Posted by judoka_uk

Nope, not got a single point on my licence.

I challenge you to find a single member of the public who doesn't think the police spend to much time trying to catch motorists and not enough time catching burglars, muggers and rapists.

Wow! Just found one! Me!

Seriously, we all know damn well that it's easier to catch a motorist than a mugger hence more people get done for motoring offences. If cops are looking for a "conviction tally" then it's a lot easier to go for soft targets.

I'm not sure what targets the UK police currently work to, I left the Police 15 years ago so what they are doing know I'm not sure.

**Nefron** · Posted On: 8/20/2012 7:10am

I really can't see how that shooting can be justified. He wasn't charging at those police officers or anything like that.

Why didn't they take up positions behind those cars, if they felt they are in an immediate danger?

The Serbian cops have the real anti knife crappling:

**slamdunc** · Posted On: 8/20/2012 7:13am

Originally Posted by bob63

I.m.h.o. Most policy is written by street shy individuals seeking evidence for career advancement. In a live dynamic situation it is rare to have appropriate resources to comply with policy.

I am inclined to agree with you to some extent; life is a dynamic thing, and things tend to unfold in no certain order. Would you suggest that we operate without policies? If that is what you are advocating, keep in mind that it would do more than put those seeking career advancement behind the curve.

Policies are a necessary evil. I prefer policies that are prefaced or sufficed by phrases like "when applicable" or "when practical".

**bob63** · Posted On: 8/20/2012 7:13am

Judoka go to any public police consultation and the three top issues will be speeding, parking and dog fouling. Go to your local station and ask about insight patrols.