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  1. doofaloofa is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2012 10:23am


     Style: mma

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ponderer View Post
    Likelihood of a sprawl succeeding against a takedown: 99.9%
    I don't know about 99.9%, and it depends on what you deem a sucsess

    IMHO a sucsesfull sprawl will lessen the effect of the takedown and potentially give you a less subservient position
  2. jnp is offline
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    Titanium laced beauty

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2012 10:35am

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     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ponderer View Post
    Alright yeah, that seems more logical now that I think about it.

    So, from what I gather

    Likelihood of a sprawl succeeding against a takedown: 99.9%

    Likelihood of a knee succeeding against a takedown: 5%

    Something like that?
    No. Sprawls are not necessarily 99.9% effective. Using the sprawl or a knee during a live situation involves quite a few variables. How far away is the wrestler shooting from? How good is his technique?

    It's ridiculously easy to sprawl against the "zombie" shot, meaning when the person is bent at the waist instead of the knees, but when someone sets up their double leg take down with a few strikes and then drops down for the double when you're moving in to counter, you will probably not have time to sprawl.

    I've been a wrestler since I was in high school, 25 years ago. I can still successfully sprawl against collegiate wrestlers who are younger and faster than me at BJJ, Judo or wrestling practice.

    If you start popping me in the face or body beforehand though, my success rate goes down significantly.

    People who don't train in combat sports never understand how chaotic sparring is, or how hard it is to successfully pull off techniques against a fully resisting opponent. Add to this, things get even more chaotic outside the gym in real life altercations.

    I'm not trying to be a dick when I say that. Just giving you an insider's perspective.
    Shut the hell up and train.
  3. Ponderer is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2012 11:04am


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jnp View Post
    No. Sprawls are not necessarily 99.9% effective. Using the sprawl or a knee during a live situation involves quite a few variables. How far away is the wrestler shooting from? How good is his technique?

    It's ridiculously easy to sprawl against the "zombie" shot, meaning when the person is bent at the waist instead of the knees, but when someone sets up their double leg take down with a few strikes and then drops down for the double when you're moving in to counter, you will probably not have time to sprawl.

    I've been a wrestler since I was in high school, 25 years ago. I can still successfully sprawl against collegiate wrestlers who are younger and faster than me at BJJ, Judo or wrestling practice.

    If you start popping me in the face or body beforehand though, my success rate goes down significantly.

    People who don't train in combat sports never understand how chaotic sparring is, or how hard it is to successfully pull off techniques against a fully resisting opponent. Add to this, things get even more chaotic outside the gym in real life altercations.

    I'm not trying to be a dick when I say that. Just giving you an insider's perspective.

    So...what's the best defense then? Try to take the other guy down before he gets a chance to take you down? Just throw a barrage of strikes to keep him away?
  4. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2012 11:05am

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ponderer View Post
    I read on the internet that wrestlers are used to being hit on the top of the head when they're doing a takedown. So this makes the hammer fist useless, doesn't it? When someone's executing a takedown, usually the top of his head and his ears are exposed, right? So the ear slap would be available as a move, right?

    I heard an ear slap can rupture the eardrums and cause instant disorientation and loss of balance.

    However, I'm not sure how useful this would be as a takedown defense.

    Surely the wrestler doesn't need a sense of balance to take you down once he has grabbed one or both of your legs?
    Ponder less and train more.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  5. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2012 11:07am

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ponderer View Post
    Is sprawling the only practical takedown defense? You need to coordinate both your arms and legs when sprawling, whereas with an ear slap you only need to bring your hands together. I don't understand why sprawling would be easier than an ear slap.
    So, how many sorts of "takedowns" do you think exist and why would an ear slap be the single viable "defense"?

    Tipper wants to know!
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  6. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2012 11:10am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ponderer View Post
    Would a forearm strike to the jaw even be possible when someone begins to do a takedown? And why would it be better than a knee?

    EDIT: sorry for double posting, can I merge two posts?
    Good lord, you are totally untrained ? Hypothetically speaking, maybe you should go and train some and find out instead of just consulting the Internet? Where do you live, maybe we can help you find a place to train.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  7. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2012 11:17am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ponderer View Post
    So...what's the best defense then? Try to take the other guy down before he gets a chance to take you down? Just throw a barrage of strikes to keep him away?
    There is no single best defense. You have to train. Without training all the Internet wisdom (and JNP just imparted a big dose to you) is useless.

    For example,I'm a judoka. Even before new rule changes in judo, having to deal with a high quality "shot" (single/double leg "takedown" aka Kibisu Gaeshi/Kuchiki Daoshi/Morote Gari in Judo terminology) was fairly rare. So we judoka didn't practice much sprawling. Well, I kept coming up against wrestlers for a while many years ago, so I had to basically teach myself how to sprawl, and then GO AND TRAIN WITH WRESTLERS TO DEVELOP THE REFLEXES/TIMING/TECHNIQUE to be able to sprawl effectively. Then,I developed groundwork attacks to followup in the context of Judo, and after I did that, I never got "taken down" again in a Judo match by the singles or doubles.

    So even as a judo black belt I had to go and train to specifically learn to deal with "wrestling style" attacks.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  8. ermghoti is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/19/2012 11:33am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ+Sanda

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ponderer View Post
    So...what's the best defense then? Try to take the other guy down before he gets a chance to take you down? Just throw a barrage of strikes to keep him away?
    Be aware of your surroundings, and leave if things look sketchy. Don't go to places with a reputation for random violence. Don't hang out in public drunk, particularly alone. Don't be a jerk, and if somebody calls you out, apologize and move on. If you get robbed anyway, throw him/them your money (ideally in a cash clip) and run.
    Quote Originally Posted by strikistanian View Post
    DROP SEIONAGI ************! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
  9. Ponderer is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2012 11:37am


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by ermghoti View Post
    Be aware of your surroundings, and leave if things look sketchy. Don't go to places with a reputation for random violence. Don't hang out in public drunk, particularly alone. Don't be a jerk, and if somebody calls you out, apologize and move on. If you get robbed anyway, throw him/them your money (ideally in a cash clip) and run.
    Thanks dude
  10. The Question is offline
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    Octopussy!

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2012 12:11pm

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     Style: Striking/Grappling/Poking

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Whoa, guys, isn't there a little bit too much armchairing here? ************ needs to get into a class and do some ****. Someone asking these things is beyond the reach of internet knowledge. As a ************ above said, get your motherfucking ass in the gym and train until that **** falls off. Because then you won't be asking ridiculous fucking ****, like if you can slap a ************ in the head to stop him from taking you down.

    Quote Originally Posted by ermghoti View Post
    Be aware of your surroundings, and leave if things look sketchy. Don't go to places with a reputation for random violence. Don't hang out in public drunk, particularly alone. Don't be a jerk, and if somebody calls you out, apologize and move on. If you get robbed anyway, throw him/them your money (ideally in a cash clip) and run.
    And if you ever get into a deathmatch with Raz Al Ghul, make sure you kill that ************, because if you let him live, he will surely be coming back to **** with your ****.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goju - joe
    being a dick with skill is only marginally better than being a dick without skill.
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