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  1. TheRuss is offline
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    8/18/2012 1:20am

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    Could you elaborate on that bit?
    Spinal flexion?


    My understanding is that the psoas' action will vary depending on the angle of pull and what other musculature is involved. If the vertebrae stay in line, you get hip flexion. If the lower ones move more, you get hyperextension. If the upper ones move more, you get lumbar flexion.

    My guess is that this will be particularly obvious when watching someone with tight hamstrings do double leg raises in a Roman chair; as a bonus, if they have short psoas majors as well, you'll probably get to see the hyperextension at the bottom too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
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  2. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/18/2012 2:23am

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss View Post


    My understanding is that the psoas' action will vary depending on the angle of pull and what other musculature is involved. If the vertebrae stay in line, you get hip flexion. If the lower ones move more, you get hyperextension. If the upper ones move more, you get lumbar flexion.

    My guess is that this will be particularly obvious when watching someone with tight hamstrings do double leg raises in a Roman chair; as a bonus, if they have short psoas majors as well, you'll probably get to see the hyperextension at the bottom too.
    I simply can't visualize psoas major causing spinal flexion.
    I associate psoas major with just the opposite; hip flexion and lumbar extension.
  3. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/18/2012 2:47am

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    Hmmm, ok perhaps here:


    Is that similar to the activation you are visualizing with the Roman chair?
  4. TheRuss is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/19/2012 2:16pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    Hmmm, ok perhaps here:


    Is that similar to the activation you are visualizing with the Roman chair?
    Kinda, yeah. I want to stress the if you let it part, because I can't think of any situations where you'd *want* the psoas to cause flexion or hyperextension. Seems universally pathological to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
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  5. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/20/2012 9:11am


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    Ahh, the psoas major. Here's something for everyone who sits at desk: learn how to use self-myofascial release techniques to release the psoas. It's the equivalent of using the foam roller on your back or IT band, etc. It helped me tremendously.

    Get a ball, maybe 4-6in diameter, lay supine with the ball one one side of lower quadrant of your abdomen. Just lay there and wait for things to soften. At first it is painful and can take a few minutes, but eventually your psoas will release--it will get softer and softer. Imagine that your'e melting into the ball. Later, move the ball to the other side and repeat.

    What your doing is releasing the psoas (and maybe some of the other muscle in the abdomen/lower back) through your front because it's hard to do from the back. PTs and some massage therapists will do this with their fingers (ouch!).

    Here's one way, although I was taught to do it for longer and use a slightly smaller ball.

    Last edited by Res Judicata; 8/20/2012 9:32am at .
  6. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/20/2012 12:19pm

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    I like the "Cook hip lift" to help train/differentiate hip and spinal flexion/extension.
    Self massage of the psoas is difficult, even with tools.
    A tennis ball where it passes the inguinal area, or working the distal end near the femur works ok.
    Iliacus is often ignored, yet plays a similar role to the psoas.
  7. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/20/2012 12:57pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    I like the "Cook hip lift" to help train/differentiate hip and spinal flexion/extension.
    Self massage of the psoas is difficult, even with tools.
    A tennis ball where it passes the inguinal area, or working the distal end near the femur works ok.
    Iliacus is often ignored, yet plays a similar role to the psoas.
    The self MFR (not massage) is actually really easy. It's just painful and takes a while at first. But a tennis ball is a bit too small because it won't get deep enough into the abdomen.
    Eventually, your abdomen is laying flat on the ground with the ball pushed all the way inside the abdominal cavity (the intestines move out of the way). Once you get that down, you can move the ball around to find the other tight muscles (i.e. the hard spots). Just stay off of the bone.
  8. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/20/2012 1:15pm

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    MFR is massage ftr, some prefer the term bodywork but that's splitting hairs imo.
    I've formally studied the Barnes method among others.

    I don't like the prone lying on the ball because it can facilitate spinal flexion, especially considering the action that Russ described.

    Working the distal end of the muscle as i described, makes use of the Golgi tendon organs to help release the psoas, while avoiding the viscera. Granted, there are some sensitive structures in the inguinal area as well.
    (edit: This also targets the aforementioned iliacus, as they share their insertion.)

    That said, a therapist will often work on the muscle itself through the abdomen, but i don't think that's the best way to self treat.
    Last edited by ChenPengFi; 8/20/2012 1:33pm at .
  9. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/20/2012 2:12pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    MFR is massage ftr, some prefer the term bodywork but that's splitting hairs imo.
    I've formally studied the Barnes method among others.

    I don't like the prone lying on the ball because it can facilitate spinal flexion, especially considering the action that Russ described.

    Working the distal end of the muscle as i described, makes use of the Golgi tendon organs to help release the psoas, while avoiding the viscera. Granted, there are some sensitive structures in the inguinal area as well.
    (edit: This also targets the aforementioned iliacus, as they share their insertion.)

    That said, a therapist will often work on the muscle itself through the abdomen, but i don't think that's the best way to self treat.
    It's kind of hairsplitting, but although MFR is a kind of massage--it's not what most people would think of as massage. I suppose you can call it a massage technique.

    My PT is an instructor under Barnes and he prefers the ball method. And so does my wife, a PT who has studied under both Barnes and Carol Davis. I'm not really qualified to judge. In my experience, though, it works well and I haven't had a problem with spinal flexion.
  10. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/20/2012 2:34pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    It's kind of hairsplitting, but although MFR is a kind of massage--it's not what most people would think of as massage. I suppose you can call it a massage technique.

    My PT is an instructor under Barnes and he prefers the ball method. And so does my wife, a PT who has studied under both Barnes and Carol Davis. I'm not really qualified to judge. In my experience, though, it works well and I haven't had a problem with spinal flexion.

    I'm not saying it doesn't work, but it's not for everyone and there are caveats for everything.
    OP is fat and has spinal issues.
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