Posted On:8/10/2012 6:04pm
I disagree; Evilenzo's aikido/etc. background should offer a smooth segue into Fiore's and/or Marozzo's dagger plays because those methods are so heavily based on wrist and elbow locks, unbalancing techniques, etc. -
Evilenzo, are you mostly interested in practicing an "ancestral" art for recreation, rather than for self defense? That will make a big difference in terms of the advice we can give you.
The two major historical Italian dagger systems that are being revived at present are Fiore dei Liberi's, shown above, and Achille Marozzo's - of those two, Fiore's style is more popular and probably easier for you to learn by video, etc. If you do choose that style, I recommend looking at the dagger techniques intended for armored combat, as well as the unarmored methods. The source treatise for all of these is the Fior de Battaglia, which is very easy to find online.
There are also more modern Italian knife styles dating roughly to the 19th century, but they are rather hard to find and not often taught to members of the general public.
Last edited by DdlR; 8/10/2012 6:07pm at .
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Bartitsu: the Gentlemanly Art of Self Defence (est. 1899)
Posted On:8/13/2012 2:08am
Style: Aikido, Aikiken, Aikijo
Thank you very much, DdlR! I've been studying that video and i really like it.
To be honest, the medieval style would be my choice. Also, i'm staggered at the similarities with Aikido's disarming tecniques (including something similar to Ikkyou and to a Daitoryu variant we sometimes practice).
I know that this style is not exactly self-defense oriented, especially because it's based on a blade designed only for thrusting (the second tecnique in the video, if used with a slashing weapon, would be suicidal, for example) but i'm still going to look into it.
Since all of you have been so kind and helpful, i have two more questions:
1) Any book you would recomend?
2) Disarming tecniques are nice but i'd love to learn about attacking with a blade as well. Thoughts?
Posted On:8/13/2012 3:17am
This is the only book I know of that is specific to Fiore's dagger curriculum - http://www.amazon.com/Fiore-Liberi-1.../dp/3981162706 . It also covers the abrazare (wrestling/unarmed combat) methods, which is useful in that the dagger material is seen as a progression of the unarmed style.
Again, there are multiple versions of Fiore dei Liberi's original treatise, the Fior de Battaglia, freely available online.
which is a complete video record of a 1.5 hour seminar on Fiore's dagger system by Guy Windsor, who is a full-time instructor of that style based in Helsinki, Finland.
It's worth noting that, because the medieval styles have been extinct for centuries and are undergoing a modern revival, there is no "standard" way to teach/practice them. There are often differences in technical interpretation and different schools/clubs have different ways to drill the techniques, etc. I recommend looking at multiple sources towards your own practice and, again, paying attention to the dagger sections from the Fior de Battaglia that are intended for armored, as well as unarmored combat.
Posted On:8/13/2012 3:23am
Style: Generic MMA
You might e-mail these guys: http://www.cimande.com/blade/italian-index.html
They have books & videos & could probably put you in touch with their local practitioners. I recall them having some sort of European presence but I didn't pay much attention to the details at the time.
Posted On:8/13/2012 7:00pm
The book might help, but make sure you're getting the original treatises to work from and using the book at a starting point rather than a guide to the system.
The danger here is of course interpretation, a great many wma practitioners (and of course other martial artists) as you will note from youtube videos create interpretations which are not bio-mechanically sound or do not follow the principals the masters laid down.
The lack of lineage and the fact that these arts are being resurrected through research based on the treatises left to us by the original masters of the art can make it difficult to find quality interpretations let alone quality training.
The book linked may be a good starting point but be aware it cites approval by Bob Charron, one of the major researchers working on Fiore's system.
When Bob was at a convention in New Zealand he told us that the book is based on old interpretations of his that had been shown in a conventions a number of years before hand and that his interpretations had since changed considerably.
I canít comment too much further on the Italian system as my focus for medieval arts is the German art.
When looking for an instructor on any of the medieval arts the first and foremost requirements must be their understanding of the bio-mechanics of the art and their adherence to the principals of the system as much as techniques.
Posted On:8/16/2012 3:11am
Hunting and studying material, thank you very much everyone!
@jeffphansen77: i've been on their site, looks interesting, except for a strangely bad written certificate. The forum is paying students-only, though.
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