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  1. W. Rabbit is offline
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    heaven sent and hell bent but weapons clenched and well kept

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    Posted On:
    8/09/2012 9:03am

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    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    According to several sources, it was in fact his kirpan. It is NPR and the Associated Press who reported it was a butter knife....probably in ignorance.

    http://ordinary-gentlemen.com/timkow...-of-oak-creek/
    Satwant Singh approached him in the lobby and tried to stop him from hurting others and disrespecting Guru Sahib. From what we understand, he attempted to use a kirpan or talwar to attack and tackle the shooter but was shot in the back after a struggle. This is the correct use of a kirpan, protecting the innocent and those that are unable to protect themselves.
  2. scipio is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/09/2012 9:18am


     Style: Karate

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    According to several sources, it was in fact his kirpan. It is NPR and the Associated Press who reported it was a butter knife....probably in ignorance.

    http://ordinary-gentlemen.com/timkow...-of-oak-creek/
    I think that either way it was an incredibly brave thing to do. He is a true hero.
  3. Eddie Hardon is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/09/2012 3:51pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Trad Ju Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's just the most incredible ignorance on the part of a deluded half-wit who has ruined so many lives. No doubt he had some notion of skewed "honour" in his amoeba Brain.

    My initial thought was the he thought they were Muslim and he didn't know the difference.

    That Timothy "I am the Captain of my soul" McVeigh has something to answer for....

    Here in the UK a few years ago, the 'News of the Screws', sorry, "News of the World" ran a campaign targeting Paedophiles...except that one rentamob assembled in outrageous indignation outside the house of a Paediatrician.

    Yes, they were too ignorant to know the difference....he was lucky and the campaign lost momentum after that almost violent mistake.
  4. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/09/2012 9:15pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 血鷲

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    They can't even target their hate accurately.

    If those like the gunman in this case want to go after the people responsible for the number of turbaned individuals in their country, they might want to recall that those with the turbans didn't invite themselves in. At the turn of the last century, people of European descent held all the power and refugee ships full of "furriners" were being routinely turned away. They couldn't have "forced themselves" on the West if they tried.

    It was a change in the minds of those in power that changed the face of the West.

    Thereafter, the "furriners" were only taking the deal offered to them. What those like that gunman need is either a time-machine to stop that change before it happened...or they need to convince a majority of the electorate of the correctness of their views. Shooting up a temple is a step toward neither goal, and will serve only to further harder the general public against them.

    It is unlikely that they will learn to avoid shooting themselves in the foot this way.
  5. mike321 is online now

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    Posted On:
    8/09/2012 11:34pm


     Style: kenpo, Wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    http://www.sikhismguide.org/fiveks.aspx

    A link to the symbols of Sikhs I found on the web. The hatred should be discussed, maybe a new topic on the people who put forward this hate, but I think the focus of the original post was on some people who were peacefully assembling to worship.
  6. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/10/2012 11:45pm

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    4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    TTT because me daughter linked this article in FB:
    http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion...167388435.html


    "I believe the killer had God inside of him, but he chose not to listen to God and so he did a bad thing. He didn't see God in other people, and that's why he could hurt them."

    This article gets to me and my family because we are Quakers and we hold that "there is that of God in everyone," and I was struck by the similarities. Admirable teacher and admirable children.

    Simran Jeet Singh.

    Last weekend, I had the unenviable task of teaching Sikh children about the massacre in Oak Creek.

    The kids sat at picnic tables overlooking a lake at sunset at a summer camp in New York state. They chattered excitedly in anticipation of the evening campfire that was to follow. I stood in front of them trying to compose my thoughts, wondering if children in elementary school could even comprehend what happened. I stroked my beard nervously, looked around the class and decided to find out what the kids already knew.

    "Today, I want to talk about something really sad and important. How many of you know what happened in Oak Creek, Wisconsin?"

    Dozens of hands darted toward the sky - each of the 40 kids had heard about the mass shootings. I asked for volunteers willing to tell the story, and 40 eager hands shot up again. A young boy in a shiny blue turban stated that someone went into a gurdwara and started shooting people. A girl in a green tank top confessed that she is "scared to go to gurdwara now because other people might try hurt us."

    A third young girl, who had just lost her first front tooth that day, waited patiently for me to call on her. I finally pointed in her direction, and her words sent shivers down my spine:

    "A white Christian man came and killed a bunch of us. He didn't like us because we are different."

    In some ways, her innocuous statement was problematic and, in other ways, profound.

    The second part of her analysis captured key aspects of the Sikh experience in America. We have been targeted because people have perceived us as being different. That's a simple fact.

    On the other hand, the first part of her analysis was troubling. I was struck by her characterization of the killer and, for the first time, realized that we need to guard against the construction of white, Christian males as "the other."

    How the tables had turned.

    In order to make sure the kids weren't generalizing or stereotyping Christians, I called attention to one of the heroes of Oak Creek, Police Lt. Brian Murphy. In pointing out that he was also a white, Christian male, I was able to effectively communicate the problem of projecting individual actions onto larger communities.

    The young Sikhs grasped the importance of this point more quickly than I expected, and, in retrospect, I realize that this is probably because of their own experiences in being bullied and harassed.

    After ensuring that the kids understood this elementary point, I moved on to a more challenging idea.

    "In Sikhi, we believe that God is in everything and everyone. Has anyone heard that before?"

    All the kids confirmed my expectation by nodding their heads in unison. I asked them to give me examples of where God is present, and they pointed to the nature around us, including trees, lakes and ducks. I asked about mundane objects in direct sight, such as benches, pencils and plastic cups. The kids were sharp - they quickly got the point and exclaimed excitedly: "Oh, yeah! God is in those things, too, because God is everywhere!"

    I explained that recognizing God's presence everywhere means that Sikhs are expected to love everything and everyone equally. I asked the students to look in each other's eyes and try to see God in each other. It was beautiful to see their eyes light up with newfound enthusiasm and respect.

    Then came the hard part. One of the more thoughtful students raised his hand with a confused look on his face.

    "If you say God is in everybody, are you saying that God was even in that man who killed the Sikhs in Wisconsin?"

    I loved the question, which reflected the same sort of compassion, discontent and critical engagement, expressed by people of faith around the country. The entire class had fallen silent, and I could see the boys and girls struggling to make sense of it all.

    I encouraged them to think about it for half a minute, and they came up with an impressive range of critical thoughts. Their responses essentially fell into two categories: Some believed that the shooter did not have any God in him, and others believed that he did.

    One 11-year-old raised her hand shyly and nervously adjusted her pink-framed glasses as she spoke: "I believe the killer had God inside of him, but he chose not to listen to God and so he did a bad thing. He didn't see God in other people, and that's why he could hurt them."

    Her answer touched me to the core - she had articulated my understanding of Sikh theology more simply and precisely than I could have ever imagined.

    I can only imagine what our world would be like if we were as mature as this 11-year-old, wise enough to distinguish between people and actions. She echoed the Sikh theological perspective that our enemies are not particular individuals or peoples; rather, we seek to eradicate human tendencies that bring suffering in this world, such as ego, greed and anger.

    I explained to the class that although Wade Michael Page did a terrible thing by hurting so many people, Sikhs believe that he still had God inside of him.

    Speaking to the children raises an important issue for us to consider. The challenge for Sikhs is to determine how we will react to Page and others who commit hateful acts. How will we respect the godliness in our greatest foes, and how will we teach our children and younger generations to accept and grow after such devastation?

    This perhaps will be our greatest obstacle in the months and years to come.

    Simran Jeet Singh is a doctoral candidate in religion at Columbia University (Daughter Columbia '09, where she dropped out of BJJ!).
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  7. battlefields is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/11/2012 12:03am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Powerful.
    GET A RED BELT OR DIE TRYIN'.
  8. DarkPhoenix is offline
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    I feel like you eyeballin' me, dawg!

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    Posted On:
    9/11/2012 1:33pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    Powerful.

    Agreed. Some people are just so ignorant and hateful, without just cause, or delusions of being wronged in some way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Moment View Post
    BJJ JOE: I'm going to make hate to you. Right here, right now.
    ... Ohhhhhhhh, I'm going to make hate to you so hard that your kinfolk back in Africa will feel it.l
    Quote Originally Posted by Archer
    Karate is the Dane Cook of martial arts
  9. RhinoUP is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/11/2012 2:27pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I take a lot of cabs around NY and many of them are sikhs. I have a habit of yapping with just about anyone. These people are unbelievably kind and hard working. Some have awesome stories of success and living the American dream.

    Yes I'm stereotyping, but it's true.
  10. Chili Pepper is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/11/2012 3:57pm


     Style: Siling Labuyo Arnis

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RhinoUP View Post
    I take a lot of cabs around NY and many of them are sikhs. I have a habit of yapping with just about anyone. These people are unbelievably kind and hard working. Some have awesome stories of success and living the American dream.

    Yes I'm stereotyping, but it's true.
    And really, any religion that has an all-are-welcome free communal meal as an act of worship, is pretty cool in my books. Nobody batted an eye at the pale, short-haired, clean-shaven me, and in fact I found them extremely welcoming and gracious.
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