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  1. P Marsh is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/08/2012 7:56pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    My Masochism: Lets Talk About Guns Again

    No, not about the Colorado or the Wisconsin shootings, both cases are to large and to clouded with fucked up **** to be anything but the same old dried out flavour. Today is something more pedestrian, fundamental, and at least to me, local.

    http://www.ottawacitizen.com/opinion...028/story.html

    In short, a cop from Wisconsin vacationing in my home town is "confronted" by two local men asking if he and his wife had visited the Stampede. Our good ol' boy in blue, not used to this extroverted behaviour ignores them, the unnamed pair ask again, the badge slightly flips his **** and proceeds to wish harder than he ever has for his off-duty handgun. Once home from the anarchistic, terrifying and mostly gunless hellhole that is northern Calgary writes a letter to the editor of the paper relayed in the link above by the Ottowa Citizen.

    Response in hometown paper that is similar to my feelings on the issue and goes into broader reach of the whole kerfuffle.

    Seriously, this hopefully can convey accurately my and others outside perspective on American culture from people who don't want or like guns in their communities. And to be honest, this might be an extreme case, most probably is but it underscores the perception that guns are used as an adult security blanket and when are able to be easily accessed can become the first option rather than the last. The underlying fact is that the guns, as an object, are and never have been the cause of such a mentality but the media, businesses, and lobbies that protect the ability to own a firearm in the United States have created an air where any form of spontaneous human interaction becomes a situation where you need to fear for your life and the only way to deal with such an occurrence is to have a firearm ready and available.

    Now let the long and continuous reasonable debate that will never devolve into partizan bickering begin.
  2. Mr. Machette is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/08/2012 8:10pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'd hate to bust your bubble but we are not so gregarious around these parts. I wish we were. You Canadians are allright.

    But the fact remains in most urban centers of our "illustrious" nation, when two young men approach you uninvited and begin asking probing questions, it is usually what we call "the interview phase".

    People murder for tennis shoes here. People murder for the color of your clothes. People murder for skin. THey even muder for the "apearance" oif dsirespect. That's real P Marsh. If two strapping youg "yutes" approach you in the park be on your guard. Thjey might bust a jadck move on you. That's how it is in a lot of places here.

    If you aren't on point when strangers aproach you may be the next tic on a rather unpleasant statistic.

    So yeah. We tend to nut the **** up and be hard as a coffin nail when someone gets into our personal space. Sorry if that offends your delicate sensibilities, but I would be happy to drop you in some urban pit of hell where you can see this dynamic up close and peronal.

    Go ahead and feel superior if you must. But I bet I would last longer in the meth hood than you. Heck, I may already have...
    Last edited by Mr. Machette; 8/08/2012 8:15pm at .
  3. battlefields is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/08/2012 8:22pm

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    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Machette View Post
    I'd hate to bust your bubble but we are not so gregarious around these parts. I wish we were. You Canadians are allright.

    But the fact remains in most urban centers of our "illustrious" nation, when two young men approach you uninvited and begin asking probing questions, it is usually what we call "the interview phase".

    People murder for tennis shoes here. People murder for the color of your clothes. People murder for skin. THey even muder for the "apearance" oif dsirespect. That's real P Marsh. If two strapping youg "yutes" approach you in the park be on your guard. Thjey might bust a jadck move on you. That's how it is in a lot of places here.

    If you aren't on point when strangers aproach you may be the next tic on a rather unpleasant statistic.

    So yeah. We tend to nut the **** up and be hard as a coffin nail when someone gets into our personal space. Sorry if that offends your delicate sensibilities, but I would be happy to drop you in some urban pit of hell where you can see this dynamic up close and peronal.

    Go ahead and feel superior if you must. But I bet I would last longer in the meth hood than you. Heck, I may already have...
    This doesn't address the article. He wasn't in a "meth" hood. He wasn't in a place that motherfuckers jack you for shoes. He was approached by two young men, of which he automatically assumed were aggressive, only for it to turn out later that they had free tickets to the fucking stampede and were giving them away, as they were promo dudes for the event.

    It is just as stupid for an American to walk through a Canadian town and be paranoid despite all evidence pointing to the fact that there is no need, as it would be for a Canadian to walk through an American meth hood oblivious to the dangers. In both cases someone could get hurt, but for entirely different reasons.
    GET A RED BELT OR DIE TRYIN'.
  4. mike321 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/08/2012 8:22pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Two scenarios for you: 1) you disarm people 2) you don't disarm people. I believe your responsibility for your actions are greater than your responsibility for inaction (everything else being hypothetically equal). So if you disarm you have created an obligation to protect the person you disarmed. Are you willing to take on that obligation? (remember this is hypothetical so I am assuming risks of each are equal.)
  5. slamdunc is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/08/2012 8:34pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by P Marsh View Post
    the badge slightly flips his **** and proceeds to wish harder than he ever has for his off-duty handgun.
    Why if he flipped his ****, did he not just kick the **** out of them? You are describing how he used his keyboard to make a point instead of issuing an ass whipping. If he would have had his off-duty handgun, would you expect him to shoot the pair?
    Quote Originally Posted by P Marsh View Post
    Seriously, this hopefully can convey accurately my and others outside perspective on American culture from people who don't want or like guns in their communities.
    Please keep in mind, I've never read the Canadian Constitution, or whatever Charter or Manifesto your government draws its authority from. Are there no provisions there that address any type of firearms? I would prefer that firearms didn't even exist, and that the need for them just wasn't there. That having been said, crime is real, as is the need to defend yourself from it. Utopia is only a book, if it describes the part of Canada where you live, I am happy for you.

  6. slamdunc is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/08/2012 8:41pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    It is just as stupid for an American to walk through a Canadian town and be paranoid despite all evidence pointing to the fact that there is no need.
    If someone consciously walks through a neighborhood where he feels a threat, his bad judgment comes into play. This guy obviously misunderstood the situation.

    You are also correct about people in either situation having a potential to be harmed for different reasons. If for whatever crazy reason, I am forced to be in a shitty neighborhood, I will damn sure be armed and constantly aware of my surroundings. At any rate, I really don't want to have a life-or-death test of my self-defense or marksmanship skills. Based on this, am I paranoid or just stupid for putting myself at risk?

  7. Mr. Machette is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/08/2012 8:43pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    It is just as stupid for an American to walk through a Canadian town and be paranoid despite all evidence pointing to the fact that there is no need, as it would be for a Canadian to walk through an American meth hood oblivious to the dangers. In both cases someone could get hurt, but for entirely different reasons.
    Which Canadian town are we talking about? I've heard Montreal can be a pretty rough place, what with all those performing arts students and fantastic cheese fries...

    Sorry, I should have been more clear. I was only trying to illustrate where our social paranoia comes from. I wasn't trying to justify what amounts to a zealous over-reaction. Kind of sad really. If the guy from OP was anything like the "redneck" image he's being pasted with he probably would have really enjoyed the rodeo.

    This sort of makes me want to visit Canada.
  8. P Marsh is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/08/2012 8:44pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Machette View Post
    Go ahead and feel superior if you must. But I bet I would last longer in the meth hood than you. Heck, I may already have...
    Dude, it was in Nose Hill park in broad daylight. And sure, I usually don't react all that openly when people randomly approach me for conversation but I don't criminalize someone for just striking up a conversation.

    And no, I am not going to get in a dick measuring contest with you about some sort of hypothetical episode of American gladiators set in Compton at 2:30 A.M.

    Quote Originally Posted by mike321 View Post
    Two scenarios for you: 1) you disarm people 2) you don't disarm people. I believe your responsibility for your actions are greater than your responsibility for inaction (everything else being hypothetically equal). So if you disarm you have created an obligation to protect the person you disarmed. Are you willing to take on that obligation? (remember this is hypothetical so I am assuming risks of each are equal.)
    Distinctly true, but we do have these safeguards today i.e. police forces. Yes they aren't perfect and there are circumstances that make police protection a moot choice like farm/rural living but just like my main subject these circumstances are a non-factor to the discussion. To me, an armed citizen is just as much a risk as they are a benefit, likely more so considering statistics.

    My intent is not to say that guns are bad but that gun culture can lead to strange happenings in the mind and why people like myself hold the ideals that we do.
  9. P Marsh is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/08/2012 8:51pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by slamdunc View Post
    Why if he flipped his ****, did he not just kick the **** out of them? You are describing how he used his keyboard to make a point instead of issuing an ass whipping. If he would have had his off-duty handgun, would you expect him to shoot the pair?
    Please keep in mind, I've never read the Canadian Constitution, or whatever Charter or Manifesto your government draws its authority from. Are there no provisions there that address any type of firearms? I would prefer that firearms didn't even exist, and that the need for them just wasn't there. That having been said, crime is real, as is the need to defend yourself from it. Utopia is only a book, if it describes the part of Canada where you live, I am happy for you.
    I believe he would have pulled his gun out but I don't think he would have shot them. Broad daylight, foreign soil; I may not have the rosiest perception of police but I don't think he'd be that dumb.

    As for Canadian gun control, long barrel guns i.e. hunting rifles and shotguns are legal (uncle owns several and is a farmer) but handguns if memory serves are nationally registered and have tight regulations and provinces/municipalities often take it upon themselves to criminalize them.
  10. Mr. Machette is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/08/2012 8:51pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by P Marsh View Post
    And no, I am not going to get in a dick measuring contest with you about some sort of hypothetical episode of American gladiators set in Compton at 2:30 A.M.
    You sure? I have a really nice dick.

    To adress you comment on police though. We unfortunately exist under a system where the cops are NOT legally obligated to "prevent" you from coming to harm in any way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_...ct_of_Columbia
    All they do is try to clean up the mess after something terrible happens. So in a very real sense you are responsible for defending yourself down here.

    Ain't trying to argue, just letting you know how broken "crime prevention" is in these parts.
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