Educate Me: The Why, When, and How of Concealed Carry

**Robstafarian** · Posted On: 8/08/2012 3:16pm

Originally Posted by Devil

Is your plan to commit yourself to always carrying when legally possible? That will take discipline.[...] Do you want to carry all day long when you're watching the football game at your buddy's house or whatever? It's like sitting on your wallet all day, depending how you carry it.

My plan is to carry whenever and wherever it is legal, including visiting all friends who haven't explicitly forbade it. I have developed the discipline, or some smaller magnitude thereof, by open carrying during snake season (ah, rural living). Even when stupid tired and feeling like refried ****, I told myself "this is exactly the situation in which you'll need to be armed, so arm yourself." I then talked myself through administrative loading (and unloading later) while focusing all my attention on absolute safety. I went so far as to tell someone to stop talking to me, apologizing thereafter because "safe operation of lethal weaponry is more important than virtually anything you might've said." Like preparing for venomous snakes, I'd carry concealed because the potential danger far exceeds my ability to escape it.

Originally Posted by Devil

I don't like pocket carry because it tends to look like you're carrying a folded hand towel in your pocket or something. Just my opinion.

I understand, but I have overstuffed front pockets anyway (I don't put anything in my rear pockets, unless it's pocket change I just can't stow quickly). My outward appearance wouldn't be any more bulky, and I'd just have to change to carrying my cell phone in a belt holster.

Thanks for all the feedback thus far, guys.

EDIT: I suppose one of this thread's purposes is to make carry feel more "normal," having consistently lived with people who are against it (my living situation will be different in the very near future).

**Devil** · Posted On: 8/08/2012 3:32pm

I'm not questioning your discipline. Just giving my thoughts on the negative aspects as requested.

**Robstafarian** · Posted On: 8/08/2012 4:51pm

Originally Posted by Devil

I'm not questioning your discipline. Just giving my thoughts on the negative aspects as requested.

No worries, I didn't misunderstand you.

**TEA** · Posted On: 8/08/2012 5:33pm

Good thread. I am planning to get my CHL as soon as funds permit and I like the info provide by those of you who already carry.

**wetware** · Posted On: 8/08/2012 7:21pm

Originally Posted by Robstafarian

For all of you who carry, I have a few questions:

Why do you carry?
When do you carry?
When don't you carry?
How do you carry?
How has carrying changed your life (please don't forget the boring day to day details)?
How have you interacted with law enforcement while carrying (blame YouTube for this question)?

Thanks in advance for all responses; thoughtful discussion of the above would be priceless, particularly questions five and six.

1. I carry for a couple of reasons. Like Devil, I know people are capable of some pretty messed up stuff. A few years back the projects were shut down in Chicago and people on HUD were looking for a place to go the HUD offices in Chi had a wait list nearly a year long. They weren't shy about telling people that the wait lists in Lafayette, Indiana were only a week or two long. While the vast majority of people who moved down here got a real job at one of our many fine factories or took advantage of Ivy Tech and/or Purdue and got themselves educated, there is that minority that did nothing to better themselves despite the greater number of opportunities here than in Chicago. Nothing correlates more strongly with criminal behavior than poverty, except for past criminal behavior. As a result, there's been a disturbing rise in the number of shootings here as well as break-ins, home invasions and muggings.

2. Whenever I'm outside my home and legally allowed to do so. Inside my home, there's almost always a firearm within easy reach. If I've already been carrying, there's a high likelihood that it's still right where it was in my holster.

3. When I'm not allowed to.

4. Typically a full-sized single-stack 1911. SOB in a Crossbreed holster.

5. I play pool less. Like, not when I'm carrying outside my or a friend's home. Pants wear out a little faster due to the barrel rubbing about an inch or so above the inside corner of my right pocket. Other than that, pretty much nada. I have a feeling that if I were to get something smaller in a Crossbreed I wouldn't notice it at all.

As far as an adjustment period goes, this is definitely true. It's mostly psychological. At first you'll be very self-conscious of the fire arm. You may have to adjust how you dress to avoid printing. It doesn't really belong here but since I'm talking about clothes and the like... You'll have to practice your draw a million times or so in order to make it second nature. Ranges also generally frown on this.

6. Tell them immediately. I've noticed that A) LEOs greatly appreciate it when you inform them that you're carrying and B) LEOs tend to treat you with more respect. Obviously, these will vary greatly from one area to the next depending on local law enforcement's general attitude toward civilians carrying concealed. But really... it helps to make them feel better. Every stop they've got to be wondering if this is the one where some random asshole starts taking pot-shots at them. That kind of thing is stressful as hell and is the reason that so many soldiers coming back from Iraq have PTSD despite having never really seen combat. They've spent a year or more just waiting for a roadside bomb to go off every time they leave post. If you freely inform them that you're armed and aren't acting like a toolshed you've pretty much also informed them of your non-intent to be the asshole who starts shooting at them

**slamdunc** · Posted On: 8/08/2012 8:14pm

Originally Posted by wetware

Typically a full-sized single-stack 1911. SOB in a Crossbreed holster.

Originally Posted by Devil

Don't have any SOB holsters yet but I'm looking.

Keep us posted on the SOB; I tried it and it wasn’t for me. Many of my friends swear by them, so I can’t knock them only say they don’t work for me.

Originally Posted by Devil

Well, there's a mental adjustment for starters. Following through with what you've decided to do. Is your plan to commit yourself to always carrying when legally possible? That will take discipline.

IMHO, your thoughts on this are spot-on. I agree with many of your points and think you have a good outlook on carrying.

**TEA** · Posted On: 8/08/2012 9:43pm

Originally Posted by wetware

4. Typically a full-sized single-stack 1911. SOB in a Crossbreed holster.

Originally Posted by slamdunc

Keep us posted on the SOB; I tried it and it wasn’t for me. Many of my friends swear by them, so I can’t knock them only say they don’t work for me.

I bought a cheapo Uncle Mikes IWB holster from Academy for $9.00 so that I could experiment a bit with how IWB feels and where is most comfortable for me to carry. I've found for me, about 4:30 with a bit of a cant is the most comfortable way to carry my 1911 IWB. Once I get my CHL, I'm leaning towards the Garret Industries "Silent Thunder Fusion." A lot of the members over on the 1911 forum swear by the Milt Sparks "Versa Max 2."

For now, I open carry when I'm out at the ranch and use a homemade shoulder holster that is kind of like an improved M3.

Once funds are available, I'd like to have the above rig made for me out of leather with a thumb break and a built in mag pouch a little above the right chest pocket level and running down the shoulder strap as opposed to across it as pictured. Sorry if this last is a bit of a derail.

**Devil** · Posted On: 8/08/2012 9:45pm

Okay, Crossbreed ordered for my SigPro. I hope I don't like the ************ because at $80 a pop after shipping I'll spend a fortune outfitting myself for all my pistols if it's a winner. Also, a 4-6 week wait time is pretty damn long. On the other hand, I'll forget about it before then and have a cool surprise when I get home from work one day.

**Robstafarian** · Posted On: 8/09/2012 6:44pm

I have done some work comparing potential guns for carry, and I thought I'd post it here in case anyone found it interesting.

First, I've made a ranked list of estimated free recoil energy using the calculator on handloads.com (my 1911 is included as an exemplar, based on 230gr Golden Saber)—I searched their load database for loads roughly matching the factory ammo I would carry.

Code:

Carry Pistol Free Recoil Rankings
(Weight in Pounds)
8/9/12

1911:        6.94ft. lbs.    (2.4)


XDMc 9mm:    4.29ft. lbs.    (1.75)
M&Pc 9mm:    5.54ft. lbs.    (1.35625)
G26 Gen4:    6.08ft. lbs.    (1.234375)
Taurus 709:  6.32ft. lbs.    (1.1875)
Kahr CM9:    7.56ft. lbs.    (0.99375)
XDMc .40:    8.01ft. lbs.    (1.75)
XDMc .45:    9.37ft. lbs.    (1.6875)
M&Pc .45:    9.65ft. lbs.    (1.6375)
M&Pc .40:    10.24ft. lbs.    (1.36875)
G30 SF:      10.62ft. lbs.    (1.488125)
G27 Gen4:    11.36ft. lbs.    (1.234375)
G36:         12.58ft. lbs.    (1.256875)
Kahr CM40:   12.68ft. lbs.    (1.10625)

I have also made a Sketchup drawing using boxes to signify the volume of space consumed by each gun, though of course a gun isn't shaped like a box. The boxes are color-coded according to the free recoil energy ranking, with dark green being least and dark red being most:
Size Comparison 1

Here is another angle to show thickness:
Size Comparison 2

The boxes which aren't colored are there purely for size comparison; I don't plan on getting any of them.

**Robstafarian** · Posted On: 8/11/2012 12:37pm

Having put yet more thought into it, I'm realizing that a gun suitable for pocket carry would probably be quite unpleasant to fire (in my perspective). I am thinking about compromising size, weight, and deep concealment for capacity and easier/more accurate shooting, hence the Gen4 GLOCK 19 carried IWB in either a Galco KingTuk or a Galco Summer Comfort.

Apart from the improved grip capabilities provided by the larger frame, the increased magazine capacity is my primary motivation for considering this new tack—for two reasons:

In Combat, My Accuracy Will Suck—therefore, every round in the magazine increases my chances of survival.
I Will Be Scared Shitless—hence I will pull the trigger until the magazine is empty and then a few more times before I recognize that fact. I need as much time as possible between empty magazines.

If this strikes you as misguided for whatever reason, please make your opinions known.

Bonus point: I am pretty sure I'd get my Glock from Glock Meister with the Meprolight Amber/Green sight option.