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  1. Vieux Normand is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    4,271

    Posted On:
    9/09/2012 1:59pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 血鷲

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Skummer View Post
    I think it's somewhat inaccurate to blame religion for wars. Religion is simply another type of ideology.
    Okay, then: ideologies--be they theological or otherwise--can be blamed for wars.

    Happy?

    I am.
  2. mike321 is online now

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    California
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    1,510

    Posted On:
    9/09/2012 3:02pm


     Style: kenpo, Wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If communism can't be blamed for atrocities, can fascism? Non-nazi fascists did not do the same things as the fascists. I personally think the fascist ideology does lead to atrocities. Communism also.
  3. Vince Tortelli is offline

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
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    4,000

    Posted On:
    9/09/2012 4:26pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A thought (shamelessly cribbed from Terry Pratchett):

    A belief system that can be summarized in "This is how people are. How do we change them?" is much more likely to lead to violence than one that goes "This how people are. How do we deal with it?".

    Counterpoint:
    Sometimes "How people are" gets so screwed up that dealing with it is virtually impossible (Example is American South pre-Civil War) and then you have to resort to a system like the first (Sherman's march to the sea, School integration via the National Guard, etc.)
  4. Skummer is offline

    Welterweight

    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga
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    Posted On:
    9/09/2012 4:45pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taiji/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by mike321 View Post
    If communism can't be blamed for atrocities, can fascism? Non-nazi fascists did not do the same things as the fascists. I personally think the fascist ideology does lead to atrocities. Communism also.
    I understand your point, but I have a hard time lumping all people of a particular ideology together. I've known some folk who were self-identified "nationalists." Those people were often labeled nazi or fascist, but they were normal people other than having unusual political views. None of them condoned violence. I'm sure the same can be said for most who self-identify as communist, marxist, leninist, etc. Most are just normal people who don't deserve to be lumped together with the militants of their ideology.

    Thing is, I really hate communism personally. I disagree with it on every level, but I just can't group, label and judge based on an ideology that doesn't actually demand violence.

    Then again, I'm a real softie when it comes to judging others, etc. so maybe you guys are right. *shrug*
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