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  1. Ogloc is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/07/2012 6:20am

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Throws, takedowns and knife defence

    Hi all. I am pretty much new to martial arts compared to a lot of you, I only have been doing mixed stuff for about 2 years. Trouble is the so called`dojo` I attend is`nt quite what I am looking for. They dont really care if you attend (As long as your fees are paid up), None of the instructors do things the same way so you are taught something until you master it and then someone else comes along and says it`s wrong. I have brought this up with the sensai before but he is only worried about fees and merchandise sales. Anyway besides all that I actually started martial arts specifically for the defenses like throws, takedowns, defences against knives, defences against grabs. Not sure if what I am explaining is clear enough, Something for example like someone grabs my hand and I turn it in to a wristlock or armbar. or someone takes a swing and I duck under, hook their neck and flick their leg with mine and give them a simple takedown.

    Sorry if sounds simple, but we dont get told what discipline we are practicing at the time we are randomly doing one and they dont seem keen to tell us.

    So what I am asking is what discipline covers this sort of thing? When someone runs towards you and you use their momentum to take them down or drop them? I guess it is like the sort of things you would use as defense if you were threatened in the street etc. I`m sorry if my terminology is juvenile, but we get taught how to do things, not what these things are called or we night not do them again for 6 months. I hope you can help me out and hopefully I can start looking for schools. Thanks.
  2. Fuzzy is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/07/2012 6:32am


     Style: FMA/MMA/HEMA noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The defenses you're looking for are taught in Aikido and Japanese Ju Jitsu.

    HOWEVER, most of them do NOT work in a fight (barring massive retardation on the part of your opponent.). Wristlocks are a pain in the ass to pull off and very few people actually do the wrist grab/bear hug/wild charge.

    Judo is probably your best bet for standup grappling with throws, it also has a verifiable record of working for people in self-defense situations.

    If you want knife defense, look for a good Filipino Martial Arts club.

    Also, do yourself a favour and read the stickies on "Aliveness".
  3. Ogloc is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/07/2012 6:38am

    Bullshido Newbie
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    The defenses you're looking for are taught in Aikido and Japanese Ju Jitsu.

    HOWEVER, most of them do NOT work in a fight (barring massive retardation on the part of your opponent.). Wristlocks are a pain in the ass to pull off and very few people actually do the wrist grab/bear hug/wild charge.

    Judo is probably your best bet for standup grappling with throws, it also has a verifiable record of working for people in self-defense situations.

    If you want knife defense, look for a good Filipino Martial Arts club.

    Also, do yourself a favour and read the stickies on "Aliveness".

    Thanks, Much appreciated.
  4. marcwagz is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/07/2012 1:52pm


     Style: Goju Ryu Karate

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    The defenses you're looking for are taught in Aikido and Japanese Ju Jitsu.

    HOWEVER, most of them do NOT work in a fight (barring massive retardation on the part of your opponent.). Wristlocks are a pain in the ass to pull off and very few people actually do the wrist grab/bear hug/wild charge.

    Judo is probably your best bet for standup grappling with throws, it also has a verifiable record of working for people in self-defense situations.

    If you want knife defense, look for a good Filipino Martial Arts club.

    Also, do yourself a favour and read the stickies on "Aliveness".
    I can see JJJ working if studied in a lively way, there is nothing inherently dead about the art.
    Some gracies have used wristlocks in grappling matches and MMA, actually being a wristlock expert would be an interesting game facet in grappling as not many people worry about it.
  5. jnp is offline
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    Titanium laced beauty

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    Posted On:
    8/07/2012 2:05pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ, wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by marcwagz View Post
    Some gracies have used wristlocks in grappling matches and MMA, actually being a wristlock expert would be an interesting game facet in grappling as not many people worry about it.
    Regarding your point about wrist locks and considering how most Aikido and most JJJ is trained, I think your point is an apple to oranges comparison for the following reasons.

    1. Although I'm no encyclopedia, I've never seen or heard of a MMA match where a standing wrist lock was used to finish the fight. I occasionally wrist lock people, but I am only able to do so from a superior position that includes control of their upper body.

    2. Most guys with years of submission grappling experience are familiar with wrist locks, regardless of their individual art.
    Shut the hell up and train.
  6. Volya is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/08/2012 3:39am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kickboxing?

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jnp View Post
    Regarding your point about wrist locks and considering how most Aikido and most JJJ is trained, I think your point is an apple to oranges comparison for the following reasons.

    1. Although I'm no encyclopedia, I've never seen or heard of a MMA match where a standing wrist lock was used to finish the fight. I occasionally wrist lock people, but I am only able to do so from a superior position that includes control of their upper body.

    2. Most guys with years of submission grappling experience are familiar with wrist locks, regardless of their individual art.

    From what I've gathered from my training and Security courses I've taken and whatnot, is that your locks are always used to keep control/compliance of your opponent, and not used for GAINING that control.
  7. italian judoka is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/09/2012 6:30am


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ogloc View Post
    Anyway besides all that I actually started martial arts specifically for the defenses like throws, takedowns, defences against knives, defences against grabs. Thanks.
    Hi Ogloc

    The trouble with defence against knife is that the most part of instructors who theach it never defend their lives against knives. So you will stake your life on knife desarming techniques tested in the safety of tha dojo, that may not work in a real armed assault.
  8. FYT is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/13/2012 3:29pm


     Style: Jujutsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Even monkeys sometimes fall out of trees.
    So I'll always frown on mastering any knife defense.
    There are always too many things that could go wrong.
  9. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/13/2012 7:51pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 血鷲

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by italian judoka View Post
    Hi Ogloc

    The trouble with defence against knife is that the most part of instructors who theach it never defend their lives against knives. So you will stake your life on knife desarming techniques tested in the safety of tha dojo, that may not work in a real armed assault.
    I have, as part of my work, occasionally had to deal with sharp threats (knives, sharpened picks, broken bottles held by the neck, and so on). I have never benefitted from what passes for traditional knife defenses. Those relatively-few times I couldn't just get out of there, put something solid between myself and the assailant(s) or do something else that averted the need to defend myself barehanded against such a person, I immediately closed range and clocked him ASAP.

    Better to get cut that way (forearms) than what you'd get trying to "first gain control of the weapon", which would simply result in you being two steps behind your assailant and headed for damage to something vital. When the idiot is out cold on the tiles, then you have time to "gain control of the weapon".

    In any case, that's what worked for me. Others, of course, may disagree vehemently.
  10. wikidbounce is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/14/2012 1:17am


     Style: Sticks & Jits & Fritz

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If someone pulls out a knife and threatens to stab you, the best defence is to throw your wallet at them and run in the other direction. You can practice this at home by throwing your wallet at a wall and running away. Alternately you can post your wallet to me and I will provide more quality instruction.

    Seriously though realistic knife defences are ugly and start with the assumption you have already been stabbed before realizing you were in a knife fight. Control the attackers arm by grabbing it with both hands (two on one control) and use your forehead to smash their face repeatedly until they lose conciousness. If things get desperate grab the blade in a tight fist (the tighter the better) a cut hand is less lethal than getting stabbed in the head.

    If your looking for something Japanese, Judo would be a good start. Other good options include Greco and Sambo.
    Last edited by wikidbounce; 8/14/2012 1:28am at .
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