Is barenkuclee that brutal really?

**Vieux Normand** · Posted On: 8/05/2012 7:34pm

Originally Posted by The Question

**** that ****. My comprehension is Jedi level. It's your motherfucking expression that's lacking.

Lacking sufficient simplicity. We've been over that. My apologies; again, I will try to keep things simple.

**** that **** son. Degrees in English don't preclude you making motherfucking typographical errors...

...except English degrees from the Hood. Amirite?

But they should mean you can avoid expressing **** in a way where motherfuckers become confused?

The only ************ being confused here is the one who can't decide between statement-syntax and question-mark...but that's okay: it's expected.

Curious here, how does one protect the neck? Besides strengthening so the dome doesn't rotate so much?

Short of somehow bolting the helmet into position onto the shoulder-pads so that no cervical torsion or similar injury occurs, one cannot protect the neck from those potentially life-changing injuries. Studying those vids, way back then, we saw the obvious: helmeted players felt they could hit (head-to-head among other types of collision), harder than rugby players because the domes desensitized the surface areas (face, scalp and so on) of the heads.

This meant that, if the spine was not perfectly aligned at time of impact (that's just for the head-to-head; other impacts have their own issues), there was increased occurrence of life-changing cervical trauma. In short, the helmets made some American football players feel less vulnerable and they hit harder than they might without domes. The neck, unprotected against torsion injury in such cases, took the brunt of the impacts with the results we see far too often in the sport today. Ice-hockey has a similar problem.

I got my degrees from Falklands University. They call it Falk U. Falk U, son.

How very original. Try to use material that hasn't been recycled for years, okay, Malvina-boy?.

English is my first language, ************.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Patois, insomuch as it is a language...

...it isn't---but we both knew that already...

...would be my second. Every Jamaican speaks/understands English, though some routinely **** it up.

What is it with so-called anglophones who cannot seem to obtain a complete grasp of what is supposed to be their mother tongue? I shouldn't be asking you this, of course, but if you do happen to meet an anglophone whilst on your starry-eyed pilgrimages, would you mind asking?

Haiti speaks french...

...like Jamaica "speaks English"? Right. Got it.

I think that's because we're fucking awesome that we set the standards and ****.

Setting the standard for the mangling of languages? Most impressive. Jamaica has every right to be proud.

I see what you're saying now. ****. I had a different defensive posture in mind from what you were expressing. Many people, myself included don't glue gloves to jaw, but to forehead. Most of the impact is taken by arms and forehead, with chin down. I've seen that **** used wonderfully in pro boxing.

I've found that I can slip punches just fine without the hands being all the way up to my forehead, and--rightly or wrongly--I feel like I'm better off in terms of lateral visual range, which gives me more angles to work with. Bit of scarring on the brows, bit of a flatter nose, nothing much more as a result. Also, hands at jaw-level give me a bit more leeway in terms of going to an underhook in case an opponent attempts a single-leg.

**The Question** · Posted On: 8/05/2012 8:09pm

Originally Posted by Vieux Normand

Lacking sufficient simplicity. We've been over that. My apologies; again, I will try to keep things simple.

Not lacking simplicity, but lacking clarity. They are not the same motherfucking thing.

...except English degrees from the Hood. Amirite?

English degrees from the Hood gives you street smarts. That **** is progressive and will save your life more often than one from a conventional institution. For reals, ************.

The only ************ being confused here is the one who can't decide between statement-syntax and question-mark...but that's okay: it's expected.

You ain't heard, son? I'm the motherfucking Question? I spent an entire year on forums ending all of my statements with said punctuation mark? Just to make ************ hear an upward inflection when they read my posts? I thought it was pretty fucking cool? (Like having sex with a block of ice?) Do you think it's cool. You know you think it's cool? Well do you.

Short of somehow bolting the helmet into position onto the shoulder-pads so that no cervical torsion or similar injury occurs, one cannot protect the neck from those potentially life-changing injuries. Studying those vids, way back then, we saw the obvious: helmeted players felt they could hit (head-to-head among other types of collision), harder than rugby players because the domes desensitized the surface areas (face, scalp and so on) of the heads.

The injuries of concern are they to the C-spine, or concussion style traumatic brain injury? Or both? The head on hits cause rotational trauma which is the real culprit? I imagine fixing the helmet to the motherfucking shoulder pads would **** with lateral vision, which creates a whole host of other problems.

This meant that, if the spine was not perfectly aligned at time of impact (that's just for the head-to-head; other impacts have their own issues), there was increased occurrence of life-changing cervical trauma. In short, the helmets made some American football players feel less vulnerable and they hit harder than they might without domes. The neck, unprotected against torsion injury in such cases, took the brunt of the impacts with the results we see far too often in the sport today. Ice-hockey has a similar problem.

Interesting. How is this effect of protection making you feel like you can slam harder (you know, like when you use condoms with anaesthetic in them?) transferred to MMA, where the gloves give you ~6oz less protection?

How very original. Try to use material that hasn't been recycled for years, okay, Malvina-boy?.

I ain't never heard that ****. As far as I know, I made that **** up. Which is why I'm the motherfucking boss.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

You mean like 150? The **** does liquor have to do with this?

...it isn't---but we both knew that already...

It's on the official documents and ****. I don't mind.

What is it with so-called anglophones who cannot seem to obtain a complete grasp of what is supposed to be their mother tongue? I shouldn't be asking you this, of course, but if you do happen to meet an anglophone whilst on your starry-eyed pilgrimages, would you mind asking?

The **** is an anglophone? Some kind of musician? I played the xylophone for a little while, but I was never very good at it.

Although really, I consider myself a Xenophone, because my talk is strange. I have also called my self a coprophone, because my speech is the ****. Nah mean? Fucking brilliant, son.

...like Jamaica "speaks English"? Right. Got it.

We speak very good English. Fucking awesome English. We're good at that ****. AND, we don't **** it up as bad as the Americans.

Setting the standard for the mangling of languages? Most impressive. Jamaica has every right to be proud.

And while we're on the proud topic, I have 2 words for you: Usain motherfucking Bolt.

I've found that I can slip punches just fine without the hands being all the way up to my forehead, and--rightly or wrongly--I feel like I'm better off in terms of lateral visual range, which gives me more angles to work with. Bit of scarring on the brows, bit of a flatter nose, nothing much more as a result. Also, hands at jaw-level give me a bit more leeway in terms of going to an underhook in case an opponent attempts a single-leg.

Right, but like you said, you are still in danger of somebody slamming into your hand that's on your jaw and knocking you the **** out, son. I like the extra protection of hands on forehead.

**W. Rabbit** · Posted On: 8/05/2012 8:29pm

Did he just morph a Carl Sagan quote into malt liquor?

**Permalost** · Posted On: 8/06/2012 10:29am

Originally Posted by RurikGreenwulf

One big Argument of the site was how clean or non-injured are Barekucklee fighter's faces after long careers vs Gloved boxers faces

Boby Gunn the most famous right now

What do you think?
Danm he also did some Gloved boxing

I think if it weren't for his gloved boxing career, I wouldn't take any of his "re-established bareknuckle champion" talk seriously.

**Vieux Normand** · Posted On: 8/06/2012 12:13pm

Originally Posted by The Question

Not lacking simplicity, but lacking clarity. They are not the same motherfucking thing.

In your case, the former is necessary for the latter. Clear?

English degrees from the Hood gives you street smarts. That **** is progressive and will save your life more often than one from a conventional institution. For reals, ************.

Save my life from what, exactly?

You ain't heard, son? I'm the motherfucking Question? I spent an entire year on forums ending all of my statements with said punctuation mark? Just to make ************ hear an upward inflection when they read my posts? I thought it was pretty fucking cool? (Like having sex with a block of ice?) Do you think it's cool. You know you think it's cool? Well do you.

Ah, yes. I heard a New York linguist referring to this as "uptalk". You can probably look up the term. Apparently, "uptalk" is a principal means by which white girls self-identify. Is there something you'd like to share with us? I mean, it's okay--we're not here to judge...

The injuries of concern are they to the C-spine, or concussion style traumatic brain injury? Or both? The head on hits cause rotational trauma which is the real culprit? I imagine fixing the helmet to the motherfucking shoulder pads would **** with lateral vision, which creates a whole host of other problems.

Which is why I implied that it would never happen. Dispersing force of impact over a wider area, pads help protect against blunt-force trauma, but offer no protection against any form of torsion injury. Also, domes add weight to the head, increasing the load on the neck in such cases as a body-to-body impact hit: the extra mass attached to the head causes it to snap around on the neck, as a result of such a hit, even more forcefully than it would otherwise.

At the same time, however, the blunt-force-attenuating effects of padding give players a general impression of being less vulnerable, rather than just being less vulnerable to blunt-force trauma. This, despite the fact that they are at least as vulnerable to deep-tissue and torsion injuries as unpadded contact-sport participants. This can make them less careful with their hits.

Interesting. How is this effect of protection making you feel like you can slam harder transferred to MMA, where the gloves give you ~6oz less protection?

You've doubtless seen the different nature of the punches thrown in MMA versus those thrown in, say, boxing. How much of this is due to gear and how much is due to the more generalist training regimen of an MMA fighter (versus the more specialized training regimen of a boxer) is another matter.

I ain't never heard that ****. As far as I know, I made that **** up. Which is why I'm the motherfucking boss.

No doubt you also wrote Abbott and Costello's Who's On First script as well. "Your" Falk-U. routine is about as original as that. You are indeed the motherfucking boss.

You mean like 150? The **** does liquor have to do with this?

Please, show a little national pride: go at least 200 and call it Wray & Nephew. Thanks in advance.

The **** is an anglophone? Some kind of musician? I played the xylophone for a little while, but I was never very good at it.

Allow me a moment to contain my surprise.

Although really, I consider myself a Xenophone, because my talk is strange. I have also called my self a coprophone, because my speech is the ****.

Here we go again. Once again, Q, it's "xenophobe". You'll never get into that much-sought-after (by you) position in your local white-supremacist group if you insist on sounding all greek-philo to your fellow-white-sheeters. It just won't wash. Capiche?

Meanwhile--and yes, we've been over this as well--in your case, it's either "coprophile" or "coprophage" (or, in your specific case, both). Looks like we'll just have to keep going over this until you get it right.

We speak very good English...we don't **** it up as bad as the Americans.

So...not fucking English up as much as the Americans means you speak good English? That's like saying you run better than a dead person so you're marathon-grade.

And while we're on the proud topic...

...I have no doubt you figure prominently in Pride events worldwide. We won't let your aforementioned white-sheet brethren know until you're ready to go public, okay?

I have 2 words for you: Usain motherfucking Bolt.

I have two words for you, courtesy Monty Python: "Run away!"

Right, but like you said, you are still in danger of somebody slamming into your hand that's on your jaw and knocking you the **** out, son. I like the extra protection of hands on forehead.

Since most of my striking matches have been KK in Japan (headhunting allowed, but bareknuckle) or Daido-Juku (same country, more headhunting, sometimes with minimal hand protection), I've been happy with knuckles-to-cheekbones and chin-down to both protect the sweet spot and align my spine properly.

With the above-mentioned kind of hand protection (if any) opponents slamming fists into the top of my head (pretty much the only above-the-neck-target they have) have done little more than break some of my skin while more often breaking their hands.

That's not me claiming to be all tough and ****. It's just that, in a collision between an unprotected hand and the top of a human head supported by a properly-aligned spine, the relatively-small bones of the hand will break first.

Would that be the case with the greater protection afforded the striker via gloves and wraps? Dunno. Maybe not.

Question: do you regard gloves and wraps to be PEDs (Performance-Enhancing Devices)? I do not speak of "cheating" here, since both participants would be similarly-equipped. However, if a puncher can bang harder with protected hands supported by stabilized wrists, does that not equal PEDs? Just curious.

**The Question** · Posted On: 8/06/2012 4:22pm

Originally Posted by Vieux Normand

In your case, the former is necessary for the latter. Clear?

Simple.

Save my life from what, exactly?

Not your life, son. Saves the lives of motherfuckers out here on these streets. Nah mean. Motherfucking Husslaz and ****. You ain't out here on these streets, so you ain't know.

Ah, yes. I heard a New York linguist referring to this as "uptalk". You can probably look up the term. Apparently, "uptalk" is a principal means by which white girls self-identify. Is there something you'd like to share with us? I mean, it's okay--we're not here to judge...

Uptalk? Ain't that the name of a telecom company? And yes, I do identify white girls from time to time. I like to identify them tits, the knockers, the ta-tas, the chest cannons. Nah I'm sayin? **** yeah!, son!

Which is why I implied that it would never happen. Dispersing force of impact over a wider area, pads help protect against blunt-force trauma, but offer no protection against any form of torsion injury. Also, domes add weight to the head, increasing the load on the neck in such cases as a body-to-body impact hit: the extra mass attached to the head causes it to snap around on the neck, as a result of such a hit, even more forcefully than it would otherwise.

I considered this at one point, and this is what I thought would be the major thing leading to the high preponderance of spinal injuries in the sport. That fucking helmet turns the head into a end of pendulum, fucking swinging about the neck.

At the same time, however, the blunt-force-attenuating effects of padding give players a general impression of being less vulnerable, rather than just being less vulnerable to blunt-force trauma. This, despite the fact that they are at least as vulnerable to deep-tissue and torsion injuries as unpadded contact-sport participants. This can make them less careful with their hits.

Also makes the sport far more entertaining for bloodthirsty Americans.

You've doubtless seen the different nature of the punches thrown in MMA versus those thrown in, say, boxing. How much of this is due to gear and how much is due to the more generalist training regimen of an MMA fighter (versus the more specialized training regimen of a boxer) is another matter.

My point was that I think that **** is all about training and technique. When motherfuckers in MMA swing for the fences they are clearly not giving a **** about their hands. I've competed in both boxing and MMA, albeit breifly, and when I swing, I fucking swing. My main concern wouldn't be the fist, but the wrist. And when that **** is properly aligned one aims to go through motherfuckers.

No doubt you also wrote Abbott and Costello's Who's On First script as well. "Your" Falk-U. routine is about as original as that. You are indeed the motherfucking boss.

Betta recongnize my status, mayne. I run **** (no, not diarrhoea). Abbott and Costello used to call me Uncle Q. We exchanged material, they wrote some **** for me. You know, for Q. For Q, son, for Q.

Please, show a little national pride: go at least 200 and call it Wray & Nephew. Thanks in advance.

Interestingly the highest J. Wray and Nephew go up to is 63%, which is nowhere near 200 proof. The only time I ever had 200 proof was from my the lab. You ever had 200, son? That's chemically purified 100% alcohol, son. That's what we drink in the hood.

Here we go again. Once again, Q, it's "xenophobe". You'll never get into that much-sought-after (by you) position in your local white-supremacist group if you insist on sounding all greek-philo to your fellow-white-sheeters. It just won't wash. Capiche?

Perhaps your Francophonicity is stopping you from keeping up with neologisticness and my flexible linguistic skills (and no, I don't mean my skill in performing oral sex on babes, although I'm pretty good at that **** too).

Meanwhile--and yes, we've been over this as well--in your case, it's either "coprophile" or "coprophage" (or, in your specific case, both). Looks like we'll just have to keep going over this until you get it right.

************ please, I don't file, because I'm no clerk, and I'm no fag, or phag or whatever (I like the honeys). You should also know that I commit coprocide, because I be killin' that ****.

So...not fucking English up as much as the Americans means you speak good English? That's like saying you run better than a dead person so you're marathon-grade.

At least I'm not French.

...I have no doubt you figure prominently in Pride events worldwide. We won't let your aforementioned white-sheet brethren know until you're ready to go public, okay?

Pride? Dude, Pride went out years ago. It's all about the UFC now. And yes, I'm trying to get into that cage (no bondage).

Since most of my striking matches have been KK in Japan (headhunting allowed, but bareknuckle) or Daido-Juku (same country, more headhunting, sometimes with minimal hand protection), I've been happy with knuckles-to-cheekbones and chin-down to both protect the sweet spot and align my spine properly.

****. Lucky you. I masturbate to Daido Juku videos sometimes. Since when does Kyokushin allow head punching? And in DJ, don't you use helmets with face protection? Face protection is as good as hand protection when the helmet is soft.

Also, you need to remember that people trained in KK or DJ will not be at good at putting hard, fast punches together as boxers. Not to say you're a ***** or whatever, but sometimes **** gets extra real in boxing ring.

With the above-mentioned kind of hand protection (if any) opponents slamming fists into the top of my head (pretty much the only above-the-neck-target they have) have done little more than break some of my skin while more often breaking their hands.

Definitely. No argument there.

That's not me claiming to be all tough and ****. It's just that, in a collision between an unprotected hand and the top of a human head supported by a properly-aligned spine, the relatively-small bones of the hand will break first.

Damn right, because everyone knows you're a *****.
But boxers have fractured their hands with 10oz gloves as well, sometimes that **** just happens.

Would that be the case with the greater protection afforded the striker via gloves and wraps? Dunno. Maybe not.
[/quote]
Likely not, but gloves still mean you have to keep your wrist straight and not hit hard places too often.

Question: do you regard gloves and wraps to be PEDs (Performance-Enhancing Devices)? I do not speak of "cheating" here, since both participants would be similarly-equipped. However, if a puncher can bang harder with protected hands supported by stabilized wrists, does that not equal PEDs? Just curious.

I sure as hell think so. This is going to be an even more important discussion in the future when technology gets further and further ahead. They keep making lighter football boots that let motherfuckers run faster and kick harder. Perhaps the same will happen with gloves, but then again glove technology hasn't changed too much in the last 50 or so years.

But here is something interesting about padding though. In 1983 there was a famous fight in which Panama Lewis, the coach of Luis Resto removed much of the padding from Resto's gloves. In this fight, he beat the **** out of Billy Collins and tore his iris causing him to never box again. Resto never suffered any hand injuries. And he was wailing just as hard. (Now there is some dubious **** about him covering his handwraps in plaster of paris, but that aside...) Less padding didn't result in less wailing on this occasion. And what of the facial fractures and eye injuries that will definitely be more common in barenkuclee?

**RurikGreenwulf** · Posted On: 8/06/2012 7:29pm

Maybe we could get some photos of barenkuclee ex-boxers faces and compare them to gloved ex-boxers
To see if there is damage and similar bullshit

**Mr. Machette** · Posted On: 8/06/2012 7:54pm

Originally Posted by RurikGreenwulf

Maybe we could get some photos of barenkuclee ex-boxers faces and compare them to gloved ex-boxers
To see if there is damage and similar bullshit

John Sullivan:

Vitali Klitschko:

These images were of course in no way cherry picked for dramatic humor...

**Vieux Normand** · Posted On: 8/06/2012 8:18pm

Originally Posted by The Question

Simple.

Not your life, son. Saves the lives of motherfuckers out here on these streets. Nah mean. Motherfucking Husslaz and ****. You ain't out here on these streets, so you ain't know.

Been keepin' da peace in da clubzz likely longer than you've been anything but a diseased cumdrop, boy.

(****, why would anybody want to communicate even remotely like that? Is there some badge-of-honour thing involved in coming across like a blaxpolitation-film retard?)

And yes, I do self-identify white girls from time to time. I like to identify them tits on my paltry-poutry "chest"

Well, at least you know what "self-identify" means. One day, inshallah, you'll be able to afford the total-transformation-to-white-girl procedure. Worked for the King of Pop--and you won't even need any surgery.

I considered this at one point, and this is what I thought would be the major thing leading to the high preponderance of spinal injuries in the sport. That fucking helmet turns the head into a end of pendulum, fucking swinging about the neck.

You're not allowed to think this: it would mean we actually agree on something. We both agree that can't be allowed to occur.

Also makes the sport far more entertaining for bloodthirsty Americans.

Some members of an NFL team came by the club a year or so ago, and I discussed this with one of them. He said that they know what the risks are, even with pads, but are made to feel obliged to go harder than they really want by management for just that reason: "You get all these millions, so go get your neck broken; that's what the fans want to see".

My point was that I think that **** is all about training and technique. When motherfuckers in MMA swing for the fences they are clearly not giving a **** about their hands. I've competed in both boxing and MMA, albeit breifly, and when I swing, I fucking swing. My main concern wouldn't be the fist, but the wrist. And when that **** is properly aligned one aims to go through motherfuckers.

Just like proper spinal alignment is necessary to inflict (and survive relatively intact) an NFL head-to-head hit, wraps in boxing aid in keeping the wrists more stable for more penetrating impact through the target, as opposed to unsupported wrists. This you, of course, will already know. It also aids in mitigating effects of a hit in cases where the wrist is not 100%-perfectly aligned (which might happen in the case of an opponent with good head-movement).

Betta recongnize my status, mayne.

No worries there. Your *ahem* status is secure. Nobody else would ever want--er, be able to attain such levels of purity. Pure is one thing you most definitely are.

I run **** (no, not diarrhoea). Abbott and Costello used to call me Uncle Q.

True, they did refer to you as "uncle Q"...except when the police and childrens'-aid were anywhere nearby. Be thankful: it's the only reason you are still allowed contact with your family.

Interestingly the highest J. Wray and Nephew go up to is 63%, which is nowhere near 200 proof. The only time I ever had 200 proof was from my lab.

There's such a thing as 200 proof dog-semen? Well ****, you learn something new every day...

You ever had 200, son?

It's what we in Normandy called "trail mix".

That's chemically purified 100% alcohol, son. That's what our mommas drink in the hood.

It might have been nice of yours to go on the wagon when she had you in the oven. Oh well, too late now.

Perhaps your Francophonicity is stopping you from keeping up with neologisticness and my flexible linguistic skills (and no, I don't mean my skill in performing oral sex on babies, although I'm pretty good at that **** too).

You might want to stop posting your "Uncle-Q" stuff. Your relatives can still get restraining orders.

...I'm no fag, or phag or whatever (I like the honeys).

If it were self-evident, denials wouldn't be necessary. Not to worry: nobody sees your down-low, nobody tells. Besides "honey" from labs doesn't count, 200 proof or otherwise.

You should also know that I commit coprocide, because I be killin' that ****.

I thought you were the ****. Oh, that's right: you're aiming high--to be the **** you want to kill. Just don't leave a mess, okay?

At least I'm not French.

No, but receptive-greek sort-of makes you European.

Pride? Dude, Pride went out years ago. It's all about the UFC now. And yes, I'm trying to get into that cage (no bondage).

Somebody called "DW" called. Wants to know if you swallow.

****. Lucky you. I masturbate to Daido Juku videos sometimes. Since when does Kyokushin allow head punching?

There was a time before the no-headhunting rule came in, and some KK orgs are returning to inclusion of it in the ruleset. This is what I'm told at any rate. Been out of that scene for a while.

And in DJ, don't you use helmets with face protection? Face protection is as good as hand protection when the helmet is soft.

When I was in DJ, the fucking things fogged up within 30 seconds. Apparently, they're better now. The only protection they afforded was against surface-damage (when you're in Japan, going to work all marked up is a no-no). Like other helmets, however, they do not protect against the sudden head-displacement resulting in a KO (which is why you see KOs in DJ vids), because the neck is not stabilized by the gear.

Also, you need to remember that people trained in KK or DJ will not be at good at putting hard, fast punches together as boxers. Not to say you're a ***** or whatever, but sometimes **** gets extra real in boxing ring.

The ruleset trained for favours more a more generalist approach to fighting. If a non-ground-trained boxer steps into a DJ bout with me, it would get "extra real" in a different way. Different rulesets, that's all.

But boxers have fractured their hands with 10oz gloves as well, sometimes that **** just happens.

No ****, really? I was referring to relative frequency of such occurrences, not to some kind of 100% absolute lack of variation in outcome.

Likely not, but gloves still mean you have to keep your wrist straight and not hit hard places too often.

Agreed. Protection does not reduce risk 100%. Nobody said or implied that it did...just that they afforded some risk-reduction.

But here is something interesting about padding though. In 1983 there was a famous fight in which Panama Lewis, the coach of Luis Resto removed much of the padding from Resto's gloves. In this fight, he beat the **** out of Billy Collins and tore his iris causing him to never box again. Resto never suffered any hand injuries. And he was wailing just as hard. (Now there is some dubious **** about him covering his handwraps in plaster of paris, but that aside...) Less padding didn't result in less wailing on this occasion. And what of the facial fractures and eye injuries that will definitely be more common in barenkuclee?

I do club, remember? I see that stupid ****--and the resulting injuries--all the time (and sometimes the assailants involved didn't even have any training). However, busted hands are also common as **** when they collide with heads. Either way, I call it "natural selection".

**lordbd** · Posted On: 8/06/2012 8:40pm

Originally Posted by Mr. Machette

John Sullivan

Vitali Klitschko
These images were of course in no way cherry picked for dramatic humor...

I assume that you picked these two images specifically because they are my two favorite boxers from two opposite era's. Temporal bookends of pugilistic perfection.

For John L. I think the drinking and whoring lifestyle probably did more to punish him than the 75 round boxing matches.