Is barenkuclee that brutal really?

**lordbd** · Posted On: 8/03/2012 10:12pm

I don't think John L. Sullivan has a lineage. He was way to drunk to train people who then trained other people etc. If he does have a lineage it's probably more to do with awesome drinking ability and mustache growing. In which case, I consider myself a blackbelt in old-school Sullivan-kido.

Maybe one reason Fitzsimmons was so powerful even with his suggested light workout is that he made his living as a blacksmith at first. Flinging around heavy **** all day long.

**huge** · Posted On: 8/03/2012 11:20pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_...y_and_injuries

I was always under the impression that boxing gloves were created to protect the fighters hand, so they could hit hard things harder. It would be interesting to see a real study showing the types of injuries that barenkuclee boxing incurs compared to modern gloved boxing, given the same rule set, less gloves.

**RurikGreenwulf** · Posted On: 8/03/2012 11:27pm

Originally Posted by huge

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_...y_and_injuries

I was always under the impression that boxing gloves were created to protect the fighters hand, so they could hit hard things harder. It would be interesting to see a real study showing the types of injuries that barenkuclee boxing incurs compared to modern gloved boxing, given the same rule set, less gloves.

I agree with you
This is very interesting
"One non-peer-reviewed study has estimated the risk of death from bare-knuckle boxing at 14,000 deaths per million participants. This is 184 times more deaths per million participants than for modern professional boxing, which has 76 deaths per million participants (according to the same study).[3]"

WE NEED STUDIES ON THIS

**Big Bear** · Posted On: 8/04/2012 12:45am

No, no, no The Right Honorable Baron Kuk Lee was a minor bureaucratic functionary in Hong Kong in the 1920s. It was he that decried barehand fighting and led The People in a revolt so that there would be more sweatshop labor making gloves for boxing matches.

If you've ever had 'everlast' imprinted in your forehead, now you know why.

***battlefields*** · Posted On: 8/04/2012 4:30am

Guys, guys, hold up. Some of you are calling it "barenkuclee boxing", which is a tautology. It's like saying "Muay Thai kickboxing". It's redundant. Barenkuclee IS a form of boxing. Let's be educated on this matter, please, we're the world's leading martial arts website.

**The Question** · Posted On: 8/04/2012 9:21am

Originally Posted by Vieux Normand

I'll attempt short words here.

Gloves, wraps, more protection (sorry about the extra syllables) for hands when clashing with opponent's skull, less fear of busted hands, add up to more (and heavier) shots to the head. Therefore, more likelihood of the deep-tissue injury known as concussion on the part of said opponent (see previous apology). That's called "basic logic".

When you get a couple of degrees in kinesiology (I do, University of Toronto, 1989, 1990), get back to me with something coherent.

Well if that's what the **** you wanted to say, then why didn't you say it? Perhaps you should have gotten some degrees in english too, son. Because that read as if deep tissue injuries are more easily inflicted if you have protection on your dome like they do in American Football (because the helmet is the most outstanding thing about AmFo where protection is concerned, and the shoulder pads don't count for **** when ramming somebody, they don't make you more likely to slam a ************ hard).

If you recall, I made that same motherfucking point :

Originally Posted by Q-ball

There is nothing that clearly suggests that barenkucklee is safer than gloved knuckles, except for the fact that it makes you less likely to aim to hit motherfuckers in the head with abandon

But you see how eloquent my **** is phrased son, how impossible it is to confuse that **** with something else? That's my English degree from University of the Hood, son.

Also, if you don't mind, Mr. Kinesiology from the University of Toronto, what do you say about the gloves deforming and a fraction of the momentum from the fist being transferred to the gloves? Does the protection that this affords cancel the punchers ability to hit harder and ****? And the defensive protection of gloves?

Also, "**** you, I have degrees and ****, son" is a poor argumentative tactic.

**Vieux Normand** · Posted On: 8/04/2012 2:54pm

Originally Posted by The Question

Well if that's what the **** you wanted to say, then why didn't you say it?

I did. Twice. Being eminently adaptable, I was able to dumb down--er, "adjust" the second rendition in deference to your level of "English". You're welcome.

Perhaps you should have gotten some degrees in english too, son.

I do not need degrees in English to capitalize "English" when the context demands it. Someone else on this forum might, but best not to point fingers.

Because that read as if deep tissue injuries are more easily inflicted if you have protection on your dome like they do in American Football (because the helmet is the most outstanding thing about AmFo where protection is concerned, and the shoulder pads don't count for **** when ramming somebody, they don't make you more likely to slam a ************ hard).

What American football equipment lacks is sufficient protection for the neck...not against direct impact, but against the torquing effects of a collision where the vertebrae are not directly in line with the vector of attack. Despite this, the effect of the helmet is to give some players the notion that they can go head-to-head with impunity, over and over again.

The reason I mentioned my kinesiology background is that this was an issue even back then, and we studied many vids of how the amount of gear made a difference in, among other things, the types of tackles done in American football versus how they were done in rugby. The comparative medical consequences were a topic of much discussion.

But you see how eloquent my **** is phrased son, how impossible it is to confuse that **** with something else? That's my English degree from University of the Hood, son.

You sho' phrase eloquent. The rest of us will have to be content to phrase things eloquently. You might want to call "the Hood" and get your "English-language" tuition refunded...

Meanwhile, mind telling a francophone something? (yes, English is not my first language, as is obviously also the case with you) Why do Jamaicans call their mangling of English by a French term? I mean, it's okay--we don't really need the word "patois", so they're more than welcome to it, but couldn't they come up with their own word?

...what do you say about the gloves deforming and a fraction of the momentum from the fist being transferred to the gloves?

The rapid head-displacement that results in a knockout via gloved fist (the great many knockouts where--due to the gloves--no blood spills onto the canvas from either the puncher of the recipient) indicates that any fraction of momentum lost (in the glove) is more than made up for the fact that the puncher can load up a **** of a lot more, seeing as his hands are more protected by gloves and his wrists are more stabilized by wraps. The head suddenly being rotated or otherwise displaced (so quickly you often need slo-mo to see it in its entirety) is what knocks the brain around, often initiating shutdown (KO).

That kind of bomb-throwing can only by done so many times with unprotected hands before their collisions with the human skull, supported by a properly-aligned spine, compromise their small-bone structures. Might this, one supposes, be a reason why bareknuckle bouts (such as LRR) featured so many more rounds than, say, QR bouts? If the fighters can't throw as many loaded-up bombs because their hands aren't protected, might it not take longer to get KOs?

And the defensive protection of gloves?

...as long as the fighter is smart enough to take advantage of this and not let the hands out of proper defensive position, gloves may cut down an opponent's possible angles of attack. As soon as he decides to go on the attack, however, the available angles of attack against him increase. Should he spend twelve rounds with gloves glued to jaw, not attacking?

As well, though, it might be a matter of the gloves protecting the defender's head from superficial damage, but not from getting deep-tissue KOed (not that there is any other kind of KO) when the opponent throws a well-placed bomb.

In defensive posture, the hands (gloved or not) are not being thrown outwards with force equal to that of the incoming fist and the arms--tucked in rather than extended--can, at best, aid in deflecting the punch.

If they do not, and if other defensive measures are not taken (such as slipping the punch), the mere presence of the defender's glove next to his jaw may not be enough to prevent transfer of force from the torquing body of the puncher, via his arm, his glove, the glove of the defender, the jaw of the defender to the defender's brainstem, enough for a KO.

**lordbd** · Posted On: 8/04/2012 3:54pm

Another reason they went so many rounds could be that rounds weren't timed but determined by knockdowns. Tired fighters could let themselves be downed by light shots to grab 30secs of rest.

**The Question** · Posted On: 8/04/2012 4:29pm

Originally Posted by Vieux Normand

I did. Twice. Being eminently adaptable, I was able to dumb down--er, "adjust" the second rendition in deference to your level of "English". You're welcome.

**** that ****. My comprehension is Jedi level. It's your motherfucking expression that's lacking.

I do not need degrees in English to capitalize "English" when the context demands it. Someone else on this forum might, but best not to point fingers.

**** that **** son. Degrees in English don't preclude you making motherfucking typographical errors and ****. But they should mean you can avoid expressing **** in a way where motherfuckers become confused? Nah mean?

What American football equipment lacks is sufficient protection for the neck...not against direct impact, but against the torquing effects of a collision where the vertebrae are not directly in line with the vector of attack. Despite this, the effect of the helmet is to give some players the notion that they can go head-to-head with impunity, over and over again.

Curious here, how does one protect the neck? Besides strengthening so the dome doesn't rotate so much?

The reason I mentioned my kinesiology background is that this was an issue even back then, and we studied many vids of how the amount of gear made a difference in, among other things, the types of tackles done in American football versus how they were done in rugby. The comparative medical consequences were a topic of much discussion.

Fucking cool.

You sho' phrase eloquent. The rest of us will have to be content to phrase things eloquently. You might want to call "the Hood" and get your "English-language" tuition refunded...

I got my degrees from Falklands University. They call it Falk U. Falk U, son.

Meanwhile, mind telling a francophone something? (yes, English is not my first language, as is obviously also the case with you) Why do Jamaicans call their mangling of English by a French term? I mean, it's okay--we don't really need the word "patois", so they're more than welcome to it, but couldn't they come up with their own word?

English is my first language, ************. Patois, insomuch as it is a language, would be my second. Every Jamaican speaks/understands English, though some routinely **** it up.
And a French term is used because of Haiti. Haiti speaks french, oh, sorry, I meant French and were the first Caribbean people to butcher a European language. As such, when we butchered English, they called that **** patois too. Ironically, they say French Patois for them, and Patois for us. I think that's because we're fucking awesome that we set the standards and ****. That's my understanding of it, anyway, I'm not a fucking linguist. Though I did take one or two classes at Falk U. FalK U, man.

The rapid head-displacement that results in a knockout via gloved fist (the great many knockouts where--due to the gloves--no blood spills onto the canvas from either the puncher of the recipient) indicates that any fraction of momentum lost (in the glove) is more than made up for the fact that the puncher can load up a **** of a lot more, seeing as his hands are more protected by gloves and his wrists are more stabilized by wraps. The head suddenly being rotated or otherwise displaced (so quickly you often need slo-mo to see it in its entirety) is what knocks the brain around, often initiating shutdown (KO).

Ah, I see you brought up the basic ****. Ok. It would be difficult for me to know how much harder one can unload without the gloves. I would have thought you can still knock a ************ out with gloves on.

That kind of bomb-throwing can only by done so many times with unprotected hands before their collisions with the human skull, supported by a properly-aligned spine, compromise their small-bone structures. Might this, one supposes, be a reason why bareknuckle bouts (such as LRR) featured so many more rounds than, say, QR bouts? If the fighters can't throw as many loaded-up bombs because their hands aren't protected, might it not take longer to get KOs?

Ah, well now we're stepping into my office son.
Sub knockout or concussion level force is more than enough to produce CTE, some people have that **** and have never been knocked out. Are there less blows thrown in Barenkuclee? Or just many more lighter ones delivered over a longer bout?

...as long as the fighter is smart enough to take advantage of this and not let the hands out of proper defensive position, gloves may cut down an opponent's possible angles of attack. As soon as he decides to go on the attack, however, the available angles of attack against him increase. Should he spend twelve rounds with gloves glued to jaw, not attacking?

Of course you shouldn't spend 12 rounds with your hand on you're jaw like you're making two phone calls on two separate phones. But less blows = less chance of getting your brain scarred up and ****.

As well, though, it might be a matter of the gloves protecting the defender's head from superficial damage, but not from getting deep-tissue KOed (not that there is any other kind of KO) when the opponent throws a well-placed bomb.

****. Your English is fucking **** up again. Are you saying that a ************ can throw a bomb to knock a ************ out even while is hand is on his forehead? Because that **** seems downright unreasonable.

In defensive posture, the hands (gloved or not) are not being thrown outwards with force equal to that of the incoming fist and the arms--tucked in rather than extended--can, at best, aid in deflecting the punch.

If they do not, and if other defensive measures are not taken (such as slipping the punch), the mere presence of the defender's glove next to his jaw may not be enough to prevent transfer of force from the torquing body of the puncher, via his arm, his glove, the glove of the defender, the jaw of the defender to the defender's brainstem, enough for a KO.

I see what you're saying now. ****. I had a different defensive posture in mind from what you were expressing. Many people, myself included don't glue gloves to jaw, but to forehead. Most of the impact is taken by arms and forehead, with chin down. I've seen that **** used wonderfully in pro boxing.

**RurikGreenwulf** · Posted On: 8/04/2012 10:12pm

One big Argument of the site was how clean or non-injured are Barekucklee fighter's faces after long careers vs Gloved boxers faces

Boby Gunn the most famous right now

What do you think?
Danm he also did some Gloved boxing

Also the 90's had the real boxing
https://www.boxinginsider.com/column...ng-used-to-be/