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  1. Oniwaban is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/05/2012 7:38pm


     Style: Nihon Koryu Bujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gigatron View Post
    Wow..... those illustrations look almost identical to the ones in the densho. That is some scandalous **** right there. This is very interesting and worth looking into further.
    Hi Gigatron.

    Well, I believe those illustrations do not look almost identical than Ito Gintetsu's book because in fact they are the same illustrations. Same position in the page, same everything... Hatsumi Masaaki is a propaganda master... I believe that a young Takamatsu could readed Gintetsu's books (and other's) and used them for his first steps into Ninpo/Ninjutsu. For what we can see here it seems that Takamatsu's Iga Ryu-ha have some Koga Ryu-ha tail.

    But again, the Gikan-ryu mystery still: It is legit or it is another Takamatsu-made-up Ryu-ha?

    Thanks for posting.
  2. Oniwaban is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/05/2012 7:43pm


     Style: Nihon Koryu Bujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gigatron View Post
    Wow..... those illustrations look almost identical to the ones in the densho. That is some scandalous **** right there. This is very interesting and worth looking into further.
    Hi Gigatron.

    Well, I believe those illustrations do not look almost identical than Ito Gintetsu's book because in fact they are the same illustrations. Same position in the page, same everything... Hatsumi Masaaki is a propaganda master... I believe that a young Takamatsu could readed Gintetsu's books (and other's) and used them for his first steps into Ninpo/Ninjutsu. For what we can see here it seems that Takamatsu's Iga Ryu-ha have some Koga Ryu-ha tail.

    But again, the Gikan-ryu mystery still: It is legit or it is another Takamatsu-made-up Ryu-ha?

    Thanks for posting.
    Last edited by Oniwaban; 9/05/2012 7:44pm at . Reason: Same post than #101. Sorry...
  3. Oniwaban is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/05/2012 7:59pm


     Style: Nihon Koryu Bujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gigatron View Post
    I'll see if I can grab a copy of this soon. It'll be interesting to read.
    Watch out! Handle it with care or you could be converted in another true believer and become an active partner of their church.

    Thanks for posting.
  4. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/05/2012 9:10pm

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hatsumi has always rather reminded me of Iolo Morganwg ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iolo_Morganwg ), who "creatively revived" the "secret traditions" of druidism during the late 17th century.
  5. Oniwaban is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2012 1:35am


     Style: Nihon Koryu Bujutsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR View Post
    Hatsumi has always rather reminded me of Iolo Morganwg ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iolo_Morganwg ), who "creatively revived" the "secret traditions" of druidism during the late 17th century.
    Hi DdlR.

    Great information. Very rewarding. Thanks...

    Your comment makes me remind the story of the Piltdown-man:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piltdown_Man

    I had wondered several times about what could happen when Hatsumi leaves us. Maybe it could happen something like this two cases. Who knows...

    If Hatsumi were brazilian he surely say that he found El Dorado.

    Thanks for posting.
  6. Oniwaban is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2012 2:52am


     Style: Nihon Koryu Bujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hi Everyone.

    If you are looking for Takamatsuden Bugei Ryu-ha Daijiten related pages: There are very good material in the site of Chris McCartney-Melstad at the Harvard University scholars network.

    There are available Takamatsuden related scaned pages of the three editions of this japanese-martial-arts-encyclopedia: 1963, 1969 and 1978. Obviously, in japanese.

    For example:

    Togakure-ryu Ninpo | 1963 edition:

    http://scholar.harvard.edu/chrismm/f..._292-293_a.pdf
    http://scholar.harvard.edu/chrismm/f..._292-293_b.pdf
    http://scholar.harvard.edu/chrismm/f..._292-293_c.pdf

    Togakure-ryu Ninpo | 1969 edition:

    http://scholar.harvard.edu/chrismm/f...69_536-537.pdf
    http://scholar.harvard.edu/chrismm/f...69_538-539.pdf

    Togakure-ryu Ninpo | 1978 edition:

    http://scholar.harvard.edu/chrismm/f..._626-627_a.pdf
    http://scholar.harvard.edu/chrismm/f..._626-627_b.pdf
    http://scholar.harvard.edu/chrismm/f...78_628-629.pdf

    There are also good pages from the Kakutogi no Rekishi (another book that Bujinkan members tend to refer).

    Well, this is the main link:

    http://scholar.harvard.edu/chrismm/

    Enjoy.

    Regards.
    Last edited by Oniwaban; 9/07/2012 3:00am at .
  7. SpamN'Cheese is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2012 10:59am


     Style: Karate, Boxing, BJJ noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Oniwaban View Post
    Hi Everyone.

    If you are looking for Takamatsuden Bugei Ryu-ha Daijiten related pages: There are very good material in the site of Chris McCartney-Melstad at the Harvard University scholars network.


    There are available Takamatsuden related scaned pages of the three editions of this japanese-martial-arts-encyclopedia: 1963, 1969 and 1978. Obviously, in japanese.

    For example:

    Togakure-ryu Ninpo | 1963 edition:

    http://scholar.harvard.edu/chrismm/f..._292-293_a.pdf
    http://scholar.harvard.edu/chrismm/f..._292-293_b.pdf
    http://scholar.harvard.edu/chrismm/f..._292-293_c.pdf

    Togakure-ryu Ninpo | 1969 edition:

    http://scholar.harvard.edu/chrismm/f...69_536-537.pdf
    http://scholar.harvard.edu/chrismm/f...69_538-539.pdf

    Togakure-ryu Ninpo | 1978 edition:

    http://scholar.harvard.edu/chrismm/f..._626-627_a.pdf
    http://scholar.harvard.edu/chrismm/f..._626-627_b.pdf
    http://scholar.harvard.edu/chrismm/f...78_628-629.pdf

    There are also good pages from the Kakutogi no Rekishi (another book that Bujinkan members tend to refer).

    Well, this is the main link:

    http://scholar.harvard.edu/chrismm/

    Enjoy.

    Regards.
    How the hell did you find this? This is great!
  8. Oniwaban is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/21/2012 10:21am


     Style: Nihon Koryu Bujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SpamN'Cheese View Post
    How the hell did you find this? This is great!
    Hi SpamN'Cheese.

    Well, I was doing my job...

    I am glad you like it.

    Enjoy.
  9. Oniwaban is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2012 12:53am


     Style: Nihon Koryu Bujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hi everyone.

    I made a diagram about Takamatsuden with the data obtained in this thread. I relied on the statements, the evidence and the lack of evidence that we all know. Although it may need corrections, it will serve to make us a better idea of the Takamatsuden panorama without some lies and propaganda. It is a great point of view, less fanciful and more concrete.

    I hope you find useful and that we continue to work on it.

    Thank you all for your contributions.

    Enjoy it.



    This is the link: http://oi45.tinypic.com/2przrx2.jpg

    P.D.

    Now I am wondering about Ishitani Yoshitaro Takekage. Are there any prove of his existance? I read that he never existed. Who of you knows about this?
    Last edited by Oniwaban; 9/22/2012 12:57am at . Reason: link added
  10. skuggvarg is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/27/2012 8:24am

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dear Oniwaban,

    Where did you get the idea he never existed? I have never read anything close to that. Im pretty sure your reply will be "on the internet" which quite often is a crappy source as I hope you realize. To be honest Im a bit curious about the diagram you put together. Why are you putting effort into doing such a thing? You may end up spreading more rumors and down right wrong information and we surely have allready had more than enough of that when it comes to Takamatsuden.

    If you have to, why dont you start by using the information from the Bugei Ryu-ha Daijiten (I even think you pointed to a website that has pdf copies of the entries for the Takamatsu related Ryu-ha?). I see you put in Gikan Ryu on Mizuta Sensei. How come? If you check the Bugei Ryu-ha Daijiten it mentions one line passing through Ishitani Sensei but no Mizuta is mentioned there...

    Regards / Skuggvarg
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