This is a good thorough analysis, but I feel like bringing the issue of kicking into it is sort of a straw man or something related. Addition of kicks would cause any style of boxer trouble, because they aren't used to kicks, and the stance isn't made to be useful for checking kicks. Even rangy boxers wouldn't usually have enough range to out-jab someone who throws quick leg-kicks.
Originally Posted by atomicpoet
A lot of this is an interesting "what if?". However, we also know that there's several athletes who've had success in both boxing and other forms of martial arts.
Originally Posted by lordbd
I'd like to talk about Troy Dorsey who is unique in that he's the only man to have held world titles in karate, kickboxing, and boxing.
Here's a list of his karate/kickboxing accomplishments:
Here's a list of his boxing accomplishments:
- 1989 NABF Championion
- 1991 IBF World Champion
- 1996 IBO World Champion
Here's footage of Troy Dorsey in a kickboxing match:
Here's footage of Troy Dorsey in a boxing match:
The interesting thing I find about Dorsey is that, even though he made profound adjustments when he switched from kickboxing to boxing, his actual style of fighting didn't. If I were to describe Dorsey's style of boxing, it would be as a pressure fighter.
Pressure fighters rely on their strong chin more than other fighters. They continuously move forward, try to get underneath their opponent, with the goal of overwhelming them with a high volume of punches. Dorsey actually holds the record for most punches thrown in a match: 1,527 in a 12 round fight.
When he competed as a kickboxer, he fought very similarly. Obviously, he had to make big adjustments when switching from one ruleset to the other. His principles of fighting remained the same, however. Dorsey moved forward, tried to get underneath his opponent, and tried to overwhelm him with a high volume of punches.
Last edited by atomicpoet; 8/01/2012 11:34pm at .
But again that's about his training and conditioning not his defensive stance per se. Not doing peekabo isn't what made him great. He was just a good fighter.
Pressure fighters are not brawlers. They're more defensive than credited. By moving close and underneath, they're giving their opponent little real estate to attack. When their opponent does attack, they try to roll with the punches minimizing their impact. Obviously, it doesn't look as slick as the Phillie Shell, but it can be effective.
Originally Posted by lordbd
The great Jake LaMotta was a pressure fighter. He did much the same as Dorsey did, but was probably more talented at rolling with the punches.
First off I don't know ****
But I would imagine that being a pressure fighter in MMA isn't a good idea because of that whole grappling thing.
A great athlete is a great athlete. Just look at Jose Canseco's illustrious MMA career after pro baseball.
Everything that has been said is valid; Boxing is a different horse than MMA.
But if Mike Tyson, in his prime, transfered to MMA, I think it would go like brock lesnar; first he' get exposed by a jiujitsu guy, then he learns basic defense and starts powering through some guys again, unless they have elite level jiujitsu skills. (But Iron Mike isn't a quitter).
Also think of the intimidation factor; If you are fighting Mike Tyson, you're not going to want to throw a punch or strike with him for a second; one hit and you're fucking dead, and he might kill you before the ref gets in between. That will cause a lot of hesitation.
My favorite Tyson highlight clip and training montage.
The younger crowd may not get this since they didn't grow up watching his fights, but Mike Tyson was not just a power puncher...he was very light on his feet and agile for his size...I think the perspective that he was just a bruiser is inaccurate...you're talking about one of the most powerful, fastest, accurate strikers in the history of pugilism.
And that's just when he's in his happy place..
On the ground I highly doubt he was any less dangerous than when standing...not to mention his propensity for going overboard when it comes to things like rules...
Last edited by W. Rabbit; 8/03/2012 9:39am at .
Originally Posted by Syphilis