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  1. lukerawks is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2012 9:31am


     Style: BJJ

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Tapping is about surviving the class, and making it back in a day or two to do it all again.

    People who don't tap aren't cut out for the sport, they'll be sidelined by injury or quit due to frustration.

    As far as tapping from a panic attack, you probably went beyond exhaustion and freaked yourself out, I would work my way up to more than one class in a day. Trust me, the school will still be there in 4 months, don't burn out.

    I've tapped from exhaustion plenty of times, I've also tapped from the following:

    • Knee on belly

    • Cross collar choke that was pressing on my face instead of neck.

    • A headlock that wasn't on my neck

    • A purple belt using his fist to get to my collar while I was guarding it with my chin.


    These are all weak reasons to tap, but at the end of the day, I keep making it back to class, and I don't tap to these kinds of things as much today as I did two months ago. Keep at it, keep getting stronger, and for god's sake, tap early - tap often.
  2. Cowardly Lurker is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2012 9:46am


     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I actually posted about this on my blog a few years back, if you're interested in reading how I've handled it. http://www.stevebjj.com/2010/01/31/c...and-grappling/

    The upshot is keep going back. You won't improve at all if you quit. Focus on techniques and, for me, confront the fear head on.

    Just remember, it gets better. You will find that as you learn more tools and better technique, and as your fitness level improves, you're going to be less prone to anxiety and panic. You'll be more confident.
  3. RWaggs is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2012 10:45am


     Style: KK

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by XXIV View Post
    I had a weird problem today. It's only my third submission grappling class, 2nd judo class. Just to establish, I'm out of shape, 270 lbs 5'7" and female and I decided to do Judo and submission grapp. back to back today. May have been a mistake because I threw up and my muscles were shot......
    You have NOTHING about which to feel bad or embarrassed. I didn't actually know these background things about you, and honestly you're my hero for the day for doing what you're doing with your what you've been through and the PTSD.

    I used to get really crippling anxiety attacks when I was about 18-19, and I found that I'd get little warning signs before they kicked in. My advice would be to make it known to the people you train with that this is something which may happen to you, and that you may have to just duck out of a roll unexpectedly from time to time. Then, if you feel an attack coming, just verbally stop the roll and give yourself space. Empower yourself with disclosure. I have a feeling that, as you get yourself in better shape and start building your skills, these episodes will become rare to non-existent.
  4. crappler is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/25/2012 10:51am


     Style: Judo

    4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I am reposting this from a thread a while back. it's my post.


    Anxiety is not caused by chemical imbalances. It is caused by stress, which triggers the autonomous nervous system aka the "fight or flight" response. Very simply, the stress builds up, there is no release, and eventually it triggers a chemical response. Any type of exercise helps relieve stress, and strenuous exercise often is the best. The autonomic nervous system has two parts: the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system. The sympathetic releases the chemicals for "fight or flight" and the parasympathetic stabilizes the body afterward. For people with the disorder, the parasympathetic malfunctions. My view is that this is cause by chronic worriers. It is a mental thing.

    There is a circular type of thinking that creates stress. For example, when I suffered from panic disorder, I was constantly worried about having heart attacks. This worrying would cause anxiety, and of course, chest pain, which caused me to worry that I was having a heart attack.

    Anxiety is a very serious matter and is often created by unrealistic viewpoints or expectations and rigid beliefs about self-worth, achievement, and other nonsense characteristic of a "civilized" society with a social order based upon owning **** and being ****. The answer is to either achieve your goal or come the realization the goal is not worth destroying yourself over. Drugs and alcohol, lack of exercise, other addictions only make things worse.

    In my case, I never really moved beyond the belief system that created the anxiety, I simply achieved the goal, which ended the anxiety for the time being. One thing that helped during that period was Ativan, which I kept with me at all times. At a certain point, just having it with me stopped the attacks, although there are other things you can do to stop them when they start to come on.

    Some people will think it is stupid, but Buddhist meditation and strenuous exercise or IMO the most effective treatments.

    My two cents.
    "We often joke -- and we really wish it were a joke -- that you will only encounter two basic problems with your 'self-defense' training.
    1) That it doesn't work
    2) That it does work"
    -Animal MacYoung
  5. crappler is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/25/2012 10:55am


     Style: Judo

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I should also mention some techniques I learned from some neuroscientists at Spirit Rock. If you play with your lips, interestingly enough, it can trigger your parasympathetic nervous system. Do that when you feel the attack coming on. It seems to work for me.
    "We often joke -- and we really wish it were a joke -- that you will only encounter two basic problems with your 'self-defense' training.
    1) That it doesn't work
    2) That it does work"
    -Animal MacYoung
  6. XXIV is offline
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    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2012 10:57am

    supporting member
     Style: Jits [2 Stripe White]

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hey everyone, back after a long and refreshing sleep (albeit a little hung over..)

    Many of you - jnp, 3moose1, battlefields esp. - brought up the idea over over-exhaustion. I realized last night as I was about to fall asleep that I had exerted so much energy doing Judo and the warm-up drills (shrimps, bridges, sprawls, crunches, pushups) that I had nothing left mentally in addition to physically. I will cut back to one class per day, 2-3x per week. I am sure this contributed to the panic becoming so overwhelming.

    I want to get in shape so bad that I didn't even think of the drain it would put on my 'mental game' as well.

    gregaquaman: Yes, I think they can be tempered also. This is just an area of great inexperience and discomfort. I felt a bit discouraged because other newbs seemed to 'get it' faster than I was. I feel uncoordinated with my own body and I think it will change in time as well. My coach got on my ass about making fun of myself and my weight in class, he said that it would poison my mental game. And he said the more I fight and roll the better I will feel.
  7. RWaggs is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2012 10:58am


     Style: KK

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Crappler, spot on. When I was getting them, my fear was brain aneurysm, not heart attack, but it caused the same terror. Getting in better shape and cutting caffeine eliminated them for me.
  8. XXIV is offline
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    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2012 11:13am

    supporting member
     Style: Jits [2 Stripe White]

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by crappler View Post
    There is a circular type of thinking that creates stress. For example, when I suffered from panic disorder, I was constantly worried about having heart attacks. This worrying would cause anxiety, and of course, chest pain, which caused me to worry that I was having a heart attack.
    You're speaking my language here. For a while it was constant worry about everything - performing at my retail job and making numbers, worrying about brain aneurysms from the head pains I was getting. I used to get heart palpitations and they didn't help anything. The funny part is when I cut added sugar out of my diet (soda, ice cream, candy, cereals) I stopped getting them.

    Drugs and alcohol, lack of exercise, other addictions only make things worse.
    Yes they do. For me it was lack of exercise and binge eating.

    One thing that helped during that period was Ativan, which I kept with me at all times. At a certain point, just having it with me stopped the attacks, although there are other things you can do to stop them when they start to come on.
    I have a prescription for Alprazolam which helps calm me down if I need it, but because it is a benzodiazepine I get scared to take it too often. I wonder if I keep the bottle with me I will feel better.

    Some people will think it is stupid, but Buddhist meditation and strenuous exercise or IMO the most effective treatments.
    I don't think it's stupid at all. I've just recently started reading about theravada meditation, where you breathe and allow thoughts to come to you and accept them for what they are - acknowledging them instead of burying them and then letting them go.
  9. XXIV is offline
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    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2012 11:17am

    supporting member
     Style: Jits [2 Stripe White]

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RWaggs View Post
    Crappler, spot on. When I was getting them, my fear was brain aneurysm, not heart attack, but it caused the same terror. Getting in better shape and cutting caffeine eliminated them for me.
    I had the same fear at my 'worst' peak last year. I would feel throbbing head pains and blood pressure surges thinking that maybe that day would be the day a blood vessel would burst in my head. I was also increasingly paranoid and jumping at every noise I would hear, as I moved into my first apartment alone. That's when I got Zoloft to help chill me out, and with its help I cut caffeine and soda out of my life except for occasional teas with honey. I hope to ween off of Zoloft one day.

    I still can't kick the jaw clenching though.
  10. Vorpal is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/25/2012 11:28am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I tap more than Gregory Hines. I tap like I'm sending Morse code. When I roll I tap so much it sounds like I'm putting on a roof.

    Don't worry about it. Keep training. Have fun. Really I think the hardest thing is to learn to have fun when you're rolling. If you can do that everything else gets real easy.
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