No rolling for months in BJJ?

**Illadelphia** · Posted On: 7/21/2012 12:30am

Do you mean during the actual class when techniques are being taught or do you mean open mat freely rolling with a partner practicing? Because if you mean while techs are being taught during actual class then I retract my statement...from day one they pair the new guys up with senior purples and blues. Just no open mat for a while.

**Like Water** · Posted On: 7/21/2012 12:31am

Originally Posted by Buddhist_Budoka

Yeah, it seems the common experience for people is start rolling pretty quickly into training, either on the first day or within the first week. That makes it pretty disappointing that my school is an exception to this rule. I can only train there for 3 months because I am only home for the summer before I have to go back to school downstate. I will continue BJJ there, but it would be nice to start rolling soon to get some experience before my training really slows down for school and what not.

People do not instinctually know how to grapple. Proper grappling requires a lot of positioning and movement that feels entirely unnatural and counter intuitive. So I imagine your coach is trying to avoid you falling into/keeping the bad habits that occur when a complete newbie is thrown in on the first day and is just doing whatever feels right to try and survive. Going into your first full on rolling session with better understanding of where your hands are supposed to be, when to "hug" onto him or when to try to create space, stuff like that might help you in the long run, come to think of it.

It sucks that you'll be missing out on the most fun part of the game: but on the bright side any bad habits you have when you hit your new gym shouldn't be too deeply ingrained in you yet.

Just me sort of thinking out loud. Good luck with it.

**V8Eater** · Posted On: 7/21/2012 7:55am

Originally Posted by Buddhist_Budoka

Hey all,

I have a question regarding training standards in BJJ and whether or not my school is adhering to them properly. I don't think the school is a McDojo or really a scam overall, but I do want to know if this is a bad policy on their part. Hopefully this is the proper forum for my question.

Basically, my MMA gym (heavily emphasizes BJJ) wont let students roll/spar until they have achieved one stripe on their white belt. From what I understand, this can take anywhere from 1.5 to 4 months to achieve. I know of the concept of aliveness and that it is one of the great strengths of BJJ, that one can train against a resisting opponent from day one. But having to wait a few months seems to be putting this effective training method and learning opportunity off. Is this the norm in BJJ gyms? I have heard from others that many gyms start students off rolling from day one.

My instructors also want people to get their first stripe before rolling. However those with a wrestling or other grappling art background are invited to roll right away.

I think it makes sense for someone to have a few options before throwing them into rolling.

***jnp*** · Posted On: 7/21/2012 8:23am

Due to the sport becoming more popular, the practice of requiring students who are brand new to grappling to drill for a few months is becoming more and more commonplace. It is not a red flag.

Positional sparring/drilling is a good option after a few classes in my opinion. One guy tries to maintain position (like the guard) while the other tries to get out/pass etc.

**Vieux Normand** · Posted On: 7/21/2012 8:52am

From a bit of a different angle (Judo), I was made to randori right off the bat where I trained in Japan. Risks? Undoubtedly. Benefits? The instruction one gets re: proper positioning and mechanics will be more readily absorbed, as a n00b will likely have gotten, from those first attempts at randori, some physical notion (as opposed to purely theoretical) of the price of doing things incorrectly.

**XXIV** · Posted On: 7/21/2012 10:45am

I don't strictly train BJJ (sort of a grappling mix) but I had to roll on my first day and I'm kind of glad I did. You're already gassed, kind of tense, nervous - and you get thrown into this situation with experienced guys and sort of tossed around. I feel it was important though. I got tossed in and all I really knew how to do was Shrimp. Why?

Because I takes away "The Fear". You get used to someone in your guard, on your chest, trying to choke you etc even if you don't know how to react. You learn how it feels to be on the ground, even if you're spazzing. You learn how your limbs feel, what your hips do, why it sucks to put your arms out. That way there's no anticipation when you learn more technique, you're already used to these uncomfortable elements and now you have an arsenal.

That's my take on it anyway. I'm glad I had to roll.

**Stickybomb** · Posted On: 7/21/2012 3:08pm

In my first ju-jitsu dojo I rolled the second class. Frustrating. Too bad it was McDojo.

When I started BJJ class I spared the first time. Immensely frustrating, makes you feel like a total ****. I don't believe that first stripe thing would help much, as I AM total **** anyway, but I would probably feel more secure and sure about what I'm trying to do. At least I'd understand where all those armbars are coming from.

**goodlun** · Posted On: 7/21/2012 4:20pm

Originally Posted by Stickybomb

When I started BJJ class I spared the first time. Immensely frustrating, makes you feel like a total ****. I don't believe that first stripe thing would help much, as I AM total **** anyway, but I would probably feel more secure and sure about what I'm trying to do. At least I'd understand where all those armbars are coming from.

I am at a loss here, when I roll with a newbie I don't spend my time looking to submit them I just work controlling spazy people and timing for sweeps and passes. I have nothing to prove to myself by constantly taping out someone that isn't on the same or better level. I also tend to let them work what ever we drilled and encourage them.
This seems to be the spirit at most of the gyms I have been too.
Maybe its cause we have something like 70 BJJ gyms in San Diego where newbs get spread out so typically its not a bunch of newbie rolling with other newbies.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 7/21/2012 4:29pm

Originally Posted by Like Water

People do not instinctually know how to grapple. Proper grappling requires a lot of positioning and movement that feels entirely unnatural and counter intuitive. So I imagine your coach is trying to avoid you falling into/keeping the bad habits that occur when a complete newbie is thrown in on the first day and is just doing whatever feels right to try and survive. Going into your first full on rolling session with better understanding of where your hands are supposed to be, when to "hug" onto him or when to try to create space, stuff like that might help you in the long run, come to think of it.

It sucks that you'll be missing out on the most fun part of the game: but on the bright side any bad habits you have when you hit your new gym shouldn't be too deeply ingrained in you yet.

Just me sort of thinking out loud. Good luck with it.

I think the issue is more the 1.5 to 4 months. What you said is correct, in so much that it happens with in a few weeks.

**DKJr** · Posted On: 7/21/2012 4:35pm

Originally Posted by Buddhist_Budoka

Thanks for the responses lordbd and BJMills. I think you're right; its unconventional and frustrating, but probably not a red flag.

Allow me to barge in. No it's not uncommon, nor unconventional. It's been a more common practice recently so that it can let brand new students get some sort of clue as to what to do before they spar. This allows them to not hurt themselves or others inadvertently.

The other "trial by fire" method while it weeds out the less resilient has a higher drop off rate.

I flip flop back and forward as to which one I think works best. I think meeting in the middle and allowing positional sparring is probably better.