TKD and why it does/doesn't work

**blackmonk** · Posted On: 7/14/2012 9:20pm

I had a conversation about karate and TKD with some folks last night, and I was curious what people on here thought... While I realize the ridiculousness of stuff like point karate or Olympic TKD, what is it about those martial arts, and others like it, that people find so silly and ineffectual? There has to be some benefit to it, especially since they spar and compete quite a bit.

I ask because I have sparred with a number of really good karate and TKD guys, and they are difficult opponents... They hit hard, accurate, defend well, and have lots of live experience. In fact, the hardest I have ever been kicked in the head was by a TKD guy. Of course, some of the stuff they do has its weaknesses (ie completely sideways stance, hands low, snapping kicks with the foot, etc.), but I could say the same thing about some aspects of BJJ and judo, as well.

I want specifics. Be as vitriolic as you want.

**Boneless** · Posted On: 7/14/2012 9:29pm

The why it doesn't work can only be debated if we know what venue it is used on.
Tkd is more a sport than martial arts so it only works against itself.

Karate...depends on whats style

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 7/14/2012 9:35pm

Originally Posted by blackmonk

Be as vitriolic as you want.

Sure. Search function and don't post this tripe in the basic technique forum. This is so YMAS it is silly.

**Like Water** · Posted On: 7/14/2012 9:35pm

Originally Posted by blackmonk

There has to be some benefit to it, especially since they spar and compete quite a bit.

The thing is, this is usually not true. And even the tkd, karate schools that do spar, usually do so in low-contact, point-sparring rule sets. I don't think anyone's arguing that many of these MAs we spend a lot of time dogging on could be reasonably effective if they had more "live" application of their moves in full contact sparring (see, Kyokushin) however, I have yet to personally find a tkd or karate gym where this is how they train.

**blackmonk** · Posted On: 7/14/2012 9:48pm

Originally Posted by It is Fake

Sure. Search function and don't post this tripe in the basic technique forum. This is so YMAS it is silly.

LOL. I am sooo bad at the internet, guys. How embarrassing!

**blackmonk** · Posted On: 7/14/2012 9:49pm

Originally Posted by Like Water

The thing is, this is usually not true. And even the tkd, karate schools that do spar, usually do so in low-contact, point-sparring rule sets. I don't think anyone's arguing that many of these MAs we spend a lot of time dogging on could be reasonably effective if they had more "live" application of their moves in full contact sparring (see, Kyokushin) however, I have yet to personally find a tkd or karate gym where this is how they train.

That's fair. The guys I know just spar much, much more, and under full-contact rules.

HightowerAFK · Posted On: 7/14/2012 11:05pm

Originally Posted by Like Water

The thing is, this is usually not true. And even the tkd, karate schools that do spar, usually do so in low-contact, point-sparring rule sets. I don't think anyone's arguing that many of these MAs we spend a lot of time dogging on could be reasonably effective if they had more "live" application of their moves in full contact sparring (see, Kyokushin) however, I have yet to personally find a tkd or karate gym where this is how they train.

My karate school does something I think is kind of interesting, at the lower ranks you do the light/no contact sparring and as you get up in ranks the contact becomes more and more and by the time you reach purple (6th belt) or brown (7th belt) you are going full contact. And as we are a self defense oriented school I think that's a good way to go. As for why karate and taekwondo don't work I think all comes down to, like someone said before, the way its applied. I find a lot of people that study karate, tend to over estimate their own abilities which results in their down fall, I see this a lot among lower ranks in our school. And for TKD practitioners if they are a competition school have the horrible habit of keeping their hands low which results in them getting punched in the face much easier. But these are just my observations and there are always exceptions.

**vaquero de las nalgas** · Posted On: 7/14/2012 11:23pm

Originally Posted by blackmonk

I had a conversation about karate and TKD with some folks last night, and I was curious what people on here thought... While I realize the ridiculousness of stuff like point karate or Olympic TKD, what is it about those martial arts, and others like it, that people find so silly and ineffectual? There has to be some benefit to it, especially since they spar and compete quite a bit.

I ask because I have sparred with a number of really good karate and TKD guys, and they are difficult opponents... They hit hard, accurate, defend well, and have lots of live experience. In fact, the hardest I have ever been kicked in the head was by a TKD guy. Of course, some of the stuff they do has its weaknesses (ie completely sideways stance, hands low, snapping kicks with the foot, etc.), but I could say the same thing about some aspects of BJJ and judo, as well.

I want specifics. Be as vitriolic as you want.

When I was training in Isshinryu karate as a teenager, one of my class mates also trained in TKD. He was older and shorter than me yet he had no problem dropping an axe kick on my shoulder or kicking me in the head.

Nowadays when someone cocks their hips like that, I know enough to get out of the way. Is TKD better than anything else? Better than a total noob, yes. Better than someone who knows what to expect, not so much. I'd put my bets on a boxer.

**csharp.negative** · Posted On: 7/14/2012 11:25pm

I believe that as something becomes more and more popular, it becomes more and more difficult to find people who truly do it well. I know of a TKD school that my Sifu finds very reputable in my area. Then again, there are probably a good 20 or so TKD schools in my area.