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  1. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2012 7:10am

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     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmonk View Post
    It seems you are being the presumptuous one. I'm not judging anything; rather, I'm asking for others' judgments.

    If you don't like the thread, maybe you could read another one.


    Sent from my PH44100 using Tapatalk 2
    The judgements were preset in your questions. You're approaching the subject from a preconceived point of view.
  2. DarkPhoenix is offline
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    I feel like you eyeballin' me, dawg!

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2012 7:35am

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     Style: Judo, JJJ, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One of things I have learned is it's the fighter, not the martial art. The TKD I learned isn't much different than others, it's how I, or anyone else for that matter, applies it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Moment View Post
    BJJ JOE: I'm going to make hate to you. Right here, right now.
    ... Ohhhhhhhh, I'm going to make hate to you so hard that your kinfolk back in Africa will feel it.l
    Quote Originally Posted by Archer
    Karate is the Dane Cook of martial arts
  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/18/2012 8:46am

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkPhoenix View Post
    One of things I have learned is it's the fighter, not the martial art. The TKD I learned isn't much different than others, it's how I, or anyone else for that matter, applies it.
    Yes, this is a common phrase that is espoused on bullshido. I disagree.
  4. DarkPhoenix is offline
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    I feel like you eyeballin' me, dawg!

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2012 8:54am

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     Style: Judo, JJJ, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Yes, this is a common phrase that is espoused on bullshido. I disagree.

    Why is that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Moment View Post
    BJJ JOE: I'm going to make hate to you. Right here, right now.
    ... Ohhhhhhhh, I'm going to make hate to you so hard that your kinfolk back in Africa will feel it.l
    Quote Originally Posted by Archer
    Karate is the Dane Cook of martial arts
  5. slamdunc is online now
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    Extraordinarily Ordinary

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2012 9:59am

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     Style: TKD, CMA & American Kenpo

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Yes, this is a common phrase that is espoused on bullshido. I disagree.
    Is your contention that even the most dedicated, hard-training student is limited to mediocrity if he or she train in a bullshit style?

    I would agree that skill, athleticism, and motivation can only take one so far; if their chosen martial art is ineffective, the student will be ineffective. I used to argue that even the lamest styles have some redeeming values (nuggets). There are some that are so far-fetched that their value is 0.

  6. huge is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2012 10:27am


     Style: Kyokushin

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkPhoenix View Post
    One of things I have learned is it's the fighter, not the martial art. The TKD I learned isn't much different than others, it's how I, or anyone else for that matter, applies it.
    As an example, think about how many TKD blackbelts are walking around, and think about what percentage of them are really able to defend themselves. Do the same for, let's say Muay Thai practitioners with a similar amount of time put in.

    Make the same comparison between Aikido, and BJJ.

    I would guess that the percentages would be higher for MT and BJJ. Is this because people with more drive to be good martial artists take MT and BJJ as opposed to TKD and Aikido? or is it because the arts actually make a difference?

    If it's really the artist and not the art, then I would expect to see very similar percentages in all of those arts.

    Yes, I'm aware that I'm making some assumptions about who is prepared to defend themselves without defining what that means, but I think the point I'm trying to make is clear enough.
  7. DarkPhoenix is offline
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    I feel like you eyeballin' me, dawg!

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2012 10:59am

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     Style: Judo, JJJ, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by huge View Post
    As an example, think about how many TKD blackbelts are walking around, and think about what percentage of them are really able to defend themselves. Do the same for, let's say Muay Thai practitioners with a similar amount of time put in.

    Make the same comparison between Aikido, and BJJ.

    I would guess that the percentages would be higher for MT and BJJ. Is this because people with more drive to be good martial artists take MT and BJJ as opposed to TKD and Aikido? or is it because the arts actually make a difference?

    If it's really the artist and not the art, then I would expect to see very similar percentages in all of those arts.
    Just think of the ratios involved here. IIRC, TKD is the most practiced Martial Art in this world, so the pool is extremely diluted with the amount of practitioners. If all the numbers were even, I could see the percentages being equal. If you are dedicated in the practice of your chosen art (save the truly BS arts like Dillman's crap) You should be able to defend yourself fairly well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Moment View Post
    BJJ JOE: I'm going to make hate to you. Right here, right now.
    ... Ohhhhhhhh, I'm going to make hate to you so hard that your kinfolk back in Africa will feel it.l
    Quote Originally Posted by Archer
    Karate is the Dane Cook of martial arts
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/18/2012 11:11am

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkPhoenix View Post
    If you are dedicated in the practice of your chosen art (save the truly BS arts like Dillman's crap) You should be able to defend yourself fairly well.
    Uh oh, you just shifted and that's why I didn't respond. You need to define fighter because we have been discussing competition not the street.

    Even shitty fake arts, including Dillman's PP delivery system of Karate, can be used in self defense. Self defense is not a fighter, in context to Sport competition as defined by the posts and OP.

    This is why I am slowly staying out of these arguments. This is why Bodhi108 said what he did. You are about to argue two different points.
    Fighter competition vs. Self defense. An old an often debated can of worms.
  9. huge is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2012 11:17am


     Style: Kyokushin

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkPhoenix View Post
    Just think of the ratios involved here. IIRC, TKD is the most practiced Martial Art in this world, so the pool is extremely diluted with the amount of practitioners. If all the numbers were even, I could see the percentages being equal. If you are dedicated in the practice of your chosen art (save the truly BS arts like Dillman's crap) You should be able to defend yourself fairly well.
    The size shouldn't matter. We're discussing ratios of good to bad practitioners. If it's the artists and not the art, we should see similar ratios (e.g. - 2 good to 1 bad) across the board from art to art. If we don't, we have to ask why.

    Is it because the art does make a difference, or is it because less dedicated\talented\physically gifted\etc. people are attracted to certain arts?
  10. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2012 11:24am

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     Style: Kakutogi

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkPhoenix View Post
    Just think of the ratios involved here. IIRC, TKD is the most practiced Martial Art in this world, so the pool is extremely diluted with the amount of practitioners.
    ONE of the most popular but probably not THE most nowadays.

    If all the numbers were even, I could see the percentages being equal.
    I seriously doubt the percentages would be even. I used to think it was the person and not the art but what kills that line of thinking is that 3 month Blue belts in BJJ were destroying BBs with years of experience. Hard to keep that line of thinking with that evidence.
    Even now I will have the occasional guy come by with a BB, some multiple ones, and get dominated by my white belts.

    If you are dedicated in the practice of your chosen art (save the truly BS arts like Dillman's crap) You should be able to defend yourself fairly well.
    This has been proven untrue many times over. Look how many "masters" went down easily in the early UFCs. Not saying that dedication and training can't develop some skills but not enough to say all styles are equal and it just comes down to the person.
    ______
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    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
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