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  1. Hiro Protagonist is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/16/2012 8:15am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree pretty much with all you wrote.

    IMO, it's not so much about martial arts, but about the self-awareness that the training brings; you know, what I see about a lot of people, is that they try to groom their kids for a life without aggression. More than that, in their education, they try to justify their own weaknesses. And that way, beget only more weakness.
    Being somebody who measures himself among what other people DO, and being someone who has to reflect violence, is an important part of growing up - but one that most people miss.
  2. Syphilis is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2012 2:06pm


     Style: BJJ, Boxing, Muay Thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree. Rarely anyone who trains BJJ at my school gets into fights that aren't matches. Unless they're bouncers at the bars. By incorporating some form of violence into my life, I have no need for it anywhere else.

    But, to escalate this; from our Gym's point of view, it would be great to teach some sort of teen self defense type class/How to defend yourself from*"fights that happen when you're a 10-14 year old?"

    It would be a great thing to have like an 8 week rotating program, and if they're interested they're welcome to join the bjj or kick/boxing programs for more advanced things. (I'm looking at the Gracie Bullyproof now, but I would also like to hear about other programs that you have used succesfully in such a situation.



    *Since 'Bullying' is an awkward term here.
  3. Hiro Protagonist is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/16/2012 6:33pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Not to derail, but I think rather than a specific program, when it comes to fighting alone, the important thing is to manage adrenaline and fear. Which you cure by sparring, sparring,
    sparring.

    So, while I don't think "training" a fight, or a conflict situation is at all possible, unless there's really somebody at your gym that is qualified to give classes in a respectable RBSD, I'd recommend you rather take victims of systematic harassment into a special class and work them as hard as possible.

    As to the Gracie program, I think it's probably worth more critical scrutiny - therapy should be left to therapists, not to martial arts instructors. The reason why they came up with the anti-bullying topic so recently is simply because it's the talk of the hour, nothing else.

    I think, the only real thing that one can do to help bullied children is, give a good example, and give them all the tools they need to be successful on their own.
  4. erezb is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/17/2012 6:29am


     Style: Boxing,Kickboxing K1

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When i was a kid, and my dad sent me to KM after i got beaten up, i started handling myself quickly. The corriculume of KM is suited for them, i would focuse on common holds that one gets himself in a fight especially with kids, like a head lock from the side. Blocks against blows and kicks with counters that focus on punching the midsection or kicking the shins. Those blows are effective but not too grave when seen by teachers. A good hard kick to the shin is painful and can deter a bully but it doesn't seem too harsh. some joint manipulation against common bully grabs. How to get someone off you in a mount. Some basic leg sweeps and throws and counter to the same common leg sweeps and throws. Of course break falls and teach them how to role. Basically drills in releasing one self from a choke or a grab coupled with some basic kickboxing. The sparring should start with judo and later some kickboxing based sparring with heavy padding so they wouldn't freak out. Good luck hope it helped a bit.
    p.s Ask the kids what do they want to learn, what stuff is thrown at them , this is something my old KM teacher used to do all the time. It will prepare them to the specific technique their bullies use and will fill them with confidence.
  5. Syphilis is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/17/2012 6:54am


     Style: BJJ, Boxing, Muay Thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is the thing; we have a kids and a teens bjj programme. For some uneducated in the Martial Arts people/parents, that's not as inherently useful as a teen self defense style class.

    I completely agree Hiro; they need to spar, spar, spar. Which is why we are looking into setting up some sort of class with the idea of promoting basic techniques to escape situations, which they can spar against the other kids with. Hopefully this will convert them to BJJ or Boxing or wrestling or w/e, while in the meantime giving them tools to at least feel confident enough to not get picked on/to deal with it.

    That is the goal; I'm definitely not trying to use my amateur psychologist skills to deal with the bully type situation, I'd much prefer using my martial arts skills to help kids. And the Bullyproof program looks good, but as you wrote Hiro, there's a lot of psychological stuff in there that a martial arts instructor shouldn't involve themselves in directly.
  6. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/17/2012 4:05pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm going to cut to the end of this reading only the first 10 posts. Before you teach kids a physical approach you've got to reach out to them psychologically. Most kids won't even act because of fear. Fear of getting in trouble, fear of failure, fear of retaliation. I think you should address this in an adrenaline state class.
  7. Syphilis is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/17/2012 10:39pm


     Style: BJJ, Boxing, Muay Thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Supreme View Post
    I'm going to cut to the end of this reading only the first 10 posts. Before you teach kids a physical approach you've got to reach out to them psychologically. Most kids won't even act because of fear. Fear of getting in trouble, fear of failure, fear of retaliation. I think you should address this in an adrenaline state class.
    Thanks for contributing the only helpful post.

    This is really what I came here for/meant with 'a program' I think. I know what 'moves' to teach, that is not the inherent problem of the situation. I agree, most kids won't fight back because of all kinds of fear.

    How would/do you address this in class? And what exactly do you address? Yes, if you fight back with a bully, you might get in trouble with your principal.. but its the right thing to do?/only way to make him quit? Tell them to tell their teacher/etc first see if they can solve it?



    (Also, am I wrong in not thinking bullying is inherently bad? I mean, getting bullied and getting into a fight with another kid and learning to stand up for yourself are things that should happen in a person's life/youth and helps them grow in ways? I'm not saying oh bullying is a good thing, but it is an opportunity to grow? ... I am not entirely sure where I am going with this, putting this thought into words is more difficult than I assumed; words are always inadequate.)
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/17/2012 10:57pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Syphilis View Post

    (Also, am I wrong in not thinking bullying is inherently bad? I mean, getting bullied and getting into a fight with another kid and learning to stand up for yourself are things that should happen in a person's life/youth and helps them grow in ways? I'm not saying oh bullying is a good thing, but it is an opportunity to grow? ... I am not entirely sure where I am going with this, putting this thought into words is more difficult than I assumed; words are always inadequate.)
    Are people allowed to answer or are you going to get mad with this derail you just created?

    People learn the same things without every being bullied. Playing sports, games, debates, etc etc etc all give you opportunities to grow overcome fear, doubt, failure etc etc etc. IMO, true bullying is inherently bad no matter if it helps a person grow. Remember teasing, IMO, is not the same as bullying. American society has made EVERYTHING bullying.
  9. jnp is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/17/2012 11:02pm

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     Style: BJJ, wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Missing posts moved here, again: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=117124

    I just handed out three temp bans because apparently some people didn't believe me when I said this:

    Quote Originally Posted by jnp View Post
    That's alright, now that I have cleaned up your mess, I have decided to temp ban the next asshole that makes an off topic or YMAS style post in this thread.
    Shut the hell up and train.
  10. Syphilis is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2012 9:24am


     Style: BJJ, Boxing, Muay Thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Are people allowed to answer or are you going to get mad with this derail you just created?

    People learn the same things without every being bullied. Playing sports, games, debates, etc etc etc all give you opportunities to grow overcome fear, doubt, failure etc etc etc. IMO, true bullying is inherently bad no matter if it helps a person grow. Remember teasing, IMO, is not the same as bullying. American society has made EVERYTHING bullying.
    Thanks. That makes a lot of sense, and I think you are right; everything is bullying these days. (And why would I get mad at you for answering my question? I thought that's a thing normal people do?).
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