Paul Cave - martial arts / MMA instructor?

**BeachCarl** · Posted On: 1/31/2009 9:17am

Hi guys,

I was given a leaflet recently advertising this dojo. The instructor claims to be a black belt in pretty much everything, but having watched Royce Gracie in the early UFCs I was especially interested in "Specialised Tuition in Brazilian/Russian Jiu Jitsu".

He *may* be a great kickboxing guy, but I know there are lots of clubs jumping on the BJJ bandwagon and wanted to find out what qualiifications he has to teach. So I sent an email to ask...

Heres a scan of the leaflet

http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/s...eachCarl/1.jpg

Heres his website

www.kickboxing.co.za

Heres the email I sent:

To: shihan@kickboxing.co.za
Subject: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 01:23:12 -0500

Hi Mr. Cave,

I'm very interested in brazilian jiu jitsu and I see from your flyer
that you specialise in teaching it. Can I respectfully ask what belt
you have in BJJ, and who you've trained with please?

Many thanks.

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...The response I got was this:

From: "Karel Van Der Merwe"

To: beachlife1@mail.com
Subject: Jiu Jitsu
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:17:27 +0200

Goodday

Please allow me to respectfully respond to your request regarding
the abilities of Shihan Paul Cave. Firstly a name would have been in order. Secondly, if you have any doubts regarding the abilities of the head of our style, I invite you to come to a class and experience first hand what we offer. The training and gradings that Shihan Paul has done over the past 35 years is unexplainable and most defenitely not to be justified to someone that does not even introduce himself.

Sensei Karel
NMA - Director
??? ???? 3271

**BeachCarl** · Posted On: 1/31/2009 9:31am

...To which I responded:

To: "Karel Van Der Merwe"
Subject: Re: Jiu Jitsu
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:35:29 -0500

Hi Sensei Karel,

Thanks for getting back to me. Of course I'll introduce myself - my
name is Carl, and I live in Cape Town. Im sorry if I offended you,
and Im sure the instructors at Paul Caves are well qualified to teach
BJJ, its just that Im interested in that side of the art and would
like to know the belt & lineage. Surely thats easy to answer?

Kind regards,

Carl.

...And I haven't received a response.

So what do you guys think? Are clubs usually this defensive when it
comes to instructors qualifications? Have I overstepped the mark by
asking the instructor about his lineage?

.

**Nefron** · Posted On: 1/31/2009 9:54am

Not at all.You have a right to ask for a teachers qualifications,and expect a straightforward answer.This sounds very fishy.

Edit: zomg111111111

**sochin101** · Posted On: 1/31/2009 9:57am

Your enquiry seemed reasonable enough.

They may have received calls from MMA/BJJ places previously and are on their guard.
Certainly not a welcoming response.

But, between the lines, there is obviously a lot of "how dare you question the shihan" vibe going on.

I'm not sure how many MMA coaches call themselves shihan. Or wear karate gis.

I think you have found a 'Mixture of Martial Arts' type MMA instructor.
If you look at the videos on the site, a lot of it is generic kickboxing.
There's even footage from a tournament featuring very traditional kata.
Again, not usually the hallmark of an MMA place.

If you're looking for BJJ in Cape Town, why not post a thread in Newbietown introducing yourself and see if anyone has any advice for you.

EDIT: http://www.graciejj.co.za/
A member here trains there - sapateiro

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 1/31/2009 10:04am

Good lord why? He may be legit but, it drives me nuts when people can't answer a question. Where is your BJJ/Sambo (assuming with the Russian comment) training from? Who is it under.

It is always the questionable gyms (not saying he is a bad coach) that immediately go to the OMG come test him see him.

Shihan Paul has done over the past 35 years is unexplainable and most definitely not to be justified to someone that does not even introduce himself.

Now, he is right, when asking questions I'd expect a name but, the response is way over the top.

He could have given you the same admonishment while NAMING THE DAMN RANK AND TEACHER.

**roostercpt** · Posted On: 2/01/2009 9:25am

Hi All

I too have made a call to Mr Caves himself to quantify his "specialised Bjj training". Needless to say, I was shot down and made to feel very uncomfortable by him. I then decided to wait a few days and re approach the subject with Mr Caves. This time I acted completely ignorant and was much better received. He told me that ALL his instructors were well trained to teach bjj. He apparently ( no disrespect here) is a BJJ black belt instructor. I doubt this very much, but will endevour to get to the bottom of this.

Keep you posted.

**sapateiro** · Posted On: 2/02/2009 6:59am

I look forward to hearing the outcome of this.

Rooster & Beachcarl - you're both welcome to come along to Gracie Jiu Jitsu Cape Town - call me for a free intro. The instructors James & I take all of the classes, and we're both legitimate purple belts having trained in BJJ for many years. Our lineage is through Rorion Gracie & his sons, to Helio Gracie R.I.P. - the founder of the art (this can be confirmed by a phonecall to Rorion at his academy in LA). We've invested our lifesavings to train all over the world with many of the family so we can provide the best teaching possible. There's an article on us in this months GracieMag.

I'm not aware of there being any BJJ black belts in Cape Town.

- Gary.

www.graciejj.co.za or fb: www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=5246742042

**hondathan** · Posted On: 2/02/2009 10:41am

hi carl.....im a student at paul caves nma.most martial arts accademies and gyms are still very traditional and theres always lots of respect involved.we all grade on the belt system which is a good thing so you know how you are progressing.shihan paul cave is quite strict and knows alot about alot.i would reckomend you come to a training session and check it out for youself.
are u in the n or s suberbs??
if u cannot make class you have to sms the instructor to let him know and if u dont u do get in to trouble and marked as absent.
for each belt grading you have to know certain techniques from various forms,such as akido,bjj,kickboxing,muy tai,khali,etc etc.
this is the reason i joined with the nma,cos you learn lots from varios martial arts.
paul cave has been teaching for years and years now.when i did martial arts a long time ago before i stopped,he was my instructor.he chooses the south african team to go fight in the states at the world champs.i was chosen in 1993 i think it was to tour the states.shihan paul is the only instructor to choose the team and grant you your sa colours...
if you have done any martial arts before then you may find the first couple of classes a bit tedious,but will eventually join with the seniours.you gotta perfect basics before moving on(like anything).......
i hope i ve helped u a little??
pls feel freee to join one of our classes sometime.
os,hondathan

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 2/02/2009 10:47am

Originally Posted by hondathan

hi carl.....im a student at paul caves nma.most martial arts accademies and gyms are still very traditional and theres always lots of respect involved.we all grade on the belt system which is a good thing so you know how you are progressing.shihan paul cave is quite strict and knows alot about alot.i would reckomend you come to a training session and check it out for youself.
are u in the n or s suberbs??
if u cannot make class you have to sms the instructor to let him know and if u dont u do get in to trouble and marked as absent.
for each belt grading you have to know certain techniques from various forms,such as akido,bjj,kickboxing,muy tai,khali,etc etc.
this is the reason i joined with the nma,cos you learn lots from varios martial arts.
paul cave has been teaching for years and years now.when i did martial arts a long time ago before i stopped,he was my instructor.he chooses the south african team to go fight in the states at the world champs.i was chosen in 1993 i think it was to tour the states.shihan paul is the only instructor to choose the team and grant you your sa colours...
if you have done any martial arts before then you may find the first couple of classes a bit tedious,but will eventually join with the seniours.you gotta perfect basics before moving on(like anything).......
i hope i ve helped u a little??
pls feel freee to join one of our classes sometime.
os,hondathan

Thanks.
You do realize none of this helps prove he has a BJJ balck belt right?
The original poster wanted to train there for Brazilian Jiu jitsu. The question wasn't answered so, all the other accolades are pointless.

**danniboi07** · Posted On: 2/02/2009 11:01am

Originally Posted by hondathan

for each belt grading you have to know certain techniques from various forms,such as akido,bjj,kickboxing,muy tai,khali,etc etc.

Since when do bjj, kickboxing, and muay thai have forms?

Originally Posted by hondathan

paul cave has been teaching for years and years now.when i did martial arts a long time ago before i stopped,he was my instructor.he chooses the south african team to go fight in the states at the world champs.i was chosen in 1993 i think it was to tour the states.shihan paul is the only instructor to choose the team and grant you your sa colours...

What world championship would this be? Is there a website or any periodical that covered such an event? If it's a championship of so many martial arts I, and many others, would be interested in knowing about it. It sounds interesting.

It's good that your teacher has been teaching for a long time. However, like any teacher some credentials are needed. Before anyone goes under a new teacher a background check should be in order. It's simple and shouldn't take too long to describe. Who were his masters, what styles did they each teach him, and how long did he study under them? See? Not too hard.

Thanks for being understanding.