1. #1

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    Who the heck is Carnes??

    Sifu James DeMile, an original student of Bruce Lee's, posted this to Facebook:

    Bruce Lee just turned over in his grave. I have been receiving posts on my facebook site about all kinds of questionable activity in the JKD world. An instructor was exposed for having a phony certificate that said he was authorized to teach Bruce Lee’s original JKD. Here is a paste of a quote from a Sifu Rain Burgess, who was terribly hurt from this obvious outrageous act.
    Sifu Burgess, Carnes admission of guilt is great, but in order to show sincerity, he should admit that the certificate with my name on it is a fraud and that he pieced it together. And he needs to make a public apology to me and to the members of the JKDP for attempting to deceive and defraud us. Then, I fully support any type of rehabilitation that you can offer him. This should be a separate post of its own and not hid in a series of post responses. Due to the seriousness of his actions, a slap on the wrist is not a proper response”
    Who is this authority that was so hurt by Carnes nasty deed. It comes from a “Jeet Kune Do Association” started and run by a 10th degree Kenpo instructor, as well as a 5th (or above) degree black belt master in Jeet June Do Combatives named Gary Dill. I say “above” because Dill recently awarded a 4th degree masters black belt in “Jeet June Do Combatives. Sifu Rain Burgess appears as head of an organization called JKD Principles, even though he states he does not teach JKD, but only teaches his Thai boxing. His sole association to JKD is certification from Gary Dill. Obviously, Rains is an honorable person, if we take his quote as true “
    “In the past I have had students of Bruce Lee offer to make me an instructor in their organization after only one week of training. This sounds insane, but it is true. Another student of Bruce Lee authorized me to teach the methods he and Bruce worked on based on our conversations alone. This sounds insane, but it is also true. It is not my fault though. I should not be blamed. My instructor certificate comes from Gary Dill and I have trained with him consistently over many years. I never seen myself as some JKD prodigy or anything crazy. When i start to think about it there are guys getting BJJ black belts in 3 years, That sounds insane, but it is true”.
    Bruce would be very disappointed to know there were dishonest first generation students. Was it Danny, Richard, James Lee, Jerry????? Having been a first generation student, I would like Rains to mention who these slimeballs are, so I could expose their treachery to Bruce’s good name. Please note the comment about guys getting a black belt in only three years. End of first Post on this subject
    To my eyes, it looks like he's talking about a guy named Tom Carnes, who used to call up random JKD students and tell them they didn't know any of Bruce's true teachings. I can't find anything more on him.

    Let's clear this up: When Bruce died, he only left two certified instructors (he had three, but James Yimm Lee passed away the same year as Bruce). Taky Kimura has only certified one person, his son Andy. Dan Inosanto has certified many, but he's very clear that their certs come from him, and *not* Bruce. Even among the other original students, not a single one would certify a person in JKD. They all make it clear that you're learning their styles, based on what Bruce taught them.

    So, to put it succinctly: if anyone other than the two above claims to be certified by Bruce himself, they're full of Bullshido. There were no others. Yahoos like Tom Carnes are lying through their teeth, plain and simple.

    I'm just passing on Sifu DeMile's message, but I happen to agree wholeheartedly. This is exactly the sort of crap this forum was developed for.

  2. #2

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    Dan is probably one of bruce's more famous students and its good to know that he says he certifys people on what his take on jkd was. There are alot of places that teach jkd and ive never actually attended a class nor intend to. Bruce died too young before the system could be refined or even completed.

    This fraud **** has plagued the MA world for years. Bjj bb in 3 years? Pretty sure that guy would be found pretty quick. The only case i know of that person has gotten a bb early in bjj was i think in 4-5 years, i forget his name but it was like a full time job for him and he was training 6 hours a day.

  3. #3
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    LOL

    Who is this authority that was so hurt by Carnes nasty deed. It comes from a “Jeet Kune Do Association” started and run by a 10th degree Kenpo instructor, as well as a 5th (or above) degree black belt master in Jeet June Do Combatives named Gary Dill. I say “above” because Dill recently awarded a 4th degree masters black belt in “Jeet June Do Combatives. Sifu Rain Burgess appears as head of an organization called JKD Principles, even though he states he does not teach JKD, but only teaches his Thai boxing. His sole association to JKD is certification from Gary Dill. Obviously, Rains is an honorable person, if we take his quote as true “
    Rain Burgess is an honorable person?

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...hlight=burgess

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/member.php?u=99824

    added:

    No intention to derail the thread
    Last edited by hungryjoe; 5/30/2016 9:13am at . Reason: realized this could be a thread derail

  4. #4
    Raycetpfl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kravbizarre View Post
    Dan is probably one of bruce's more famous students and its good to know that he says he certifys people on what his take on jkd was. There are alot of places that teach jkd and ive never actually attended a class nor intend to. Bruce died too young before the system could be refined or even completed.

    This fraud **** has plagued the MA world for years. Bjj bb in 3 years? Pretty sure that guy would be found pretty quick. The only case i know of that person has gotten a bb early in bjj was i think in 4-5 years, i forget his name but it was like a full time job for him and he was training 6 hours a day.
    There has been about 10 famous guys that have been under 5 years.

    Damian Maia-4, Ciao Terra-3,Geo Martinez-3, Richie martinez-4, gunnar Nelson -4, DJ Jackson-4 but he wrestled his whole life, BJ Penn- 3 years 8+hours a day, Travis Stevens- 1.5 years but he was already a 2 time Judo Olypian

    All of these guys trained full time. Almost all of them trained Twice a day 5+ days a week.

    A Team Balance Black Belt got his in 5 years of training twice a day . His name is Anton. He is a force of nature. He will likely be a UFC Champ. If he doesn't get injured.
    I got mine in 8 years training 4 hours a day 3 to 6 days a week. Plus reading and watching film every free moment..... like right now.
    Last edited by Raycetpfl; 5/30/2016 10:31am at .

  5. #5
    Raycetpfl's Avatar
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    Ooooops I double posted.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    There has been about 10 famous guys that have been under 5 years.

    Damian Maia-4, Ciao Terra-3,Geo Martinez-3, Richie martinez-4, gunnar Nelson -4, DJ Jackson-4 but he wrestled his whole life, BJ Penn- 3 years 8+hours a day, Travis Stevens- 1.5 years but he was already a 2 time Judo Olypian

    All of these guys trained full time. Almost all of them trained Twice a day 5+ days a week.

    A Team Balance Black Belt got his in 5 years of training twice a day . His name is Anton. He is a force of nature. He will likely be a UFC Champ. If he doesn't get injured.
    I got mine in 8 years training 4 hours a day 3 to 6 days a week. Plus reading and watching film every free moment..... like right now.
    And it is not just the quantity of mat hours.
    For upper belt progression particularly,
    the quality of mat hours becomes a factor.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kravbizarre View Post
    Dan is probably one of bruce's more famous students and its good to know that he says he certifys people on what his take on jkd was. There are alot of places that teach jkd and ive never actually attended a class nor intend to. Bruce died too young before the system could be refined or even completed.

    This fraud **** has plagued the MA world for years. Bjj bb in 3 years? Pretty sure that guy would be found pretty quick. The only case i know of that person has gotten a bb early in bjj was i think in 4-5 years, i forget his name but it was like a full time job for him and he was training 6 hours a day.
    I'm not expert enough in BJJ to give more than an opinion, but I will say that anyone who claims to get any black belt that quickly is worth suspecting. It's a big claim, and should be scrutinized, even if it turns out to be true.

    Sifu DeMile posted a follow-up to the controversy earlier, by quoting a passage from Inosanto. The battle has now come around to Gary Dill, so let me start with Inosanto's part:

    While Bruce Lee was alive, there were only three individuals who were ever certified and authorized by him to teach the art of Jeet Kune Do. The highest-ranked instructor ever certified by Bruce Lee is Taky Kimura, who attained the level of fifth rank and is my senior. The only other instructors certified by Bruce Lee were the late James Lee and myself. Both James Lee and I were awarded thrid rank.

    The most senior advanced student at this time was Ted Wong, a classmate of mine and a private, personal student of Bruce Lee, who attained the level of second rank in Jeet Kune Do. Most other students at this time were ranked in Jun Fan Gung-Fu, not Jeet Kune Do. Ted Wong was one of the few people to have achieved rank in Jeet Kune Do under Bruce.

    You could receive a Jun Fan Gung-Fu certificate by training in a small group session, class session or private session under Bruce Lee, Taky Kimura, James Lee or myself. But to receive the Tao of Chinese Gung-Fu certificate or the Jeet Kune Do certificate, you had to be personally trained under Bruce Lee on a one-on-one basis. Only Bruce Lee could give this certificate in Jeet Kune Do.

    That is why I have never given a JKD ranking certificate to anyone to this day. If everyone in the JKD clan would read his certificate, you will see it reads Jun Fan Gung-Fu, Jun Fan Martial Arts or Jun Fan Martial Arts (Jeet Kune Do Concepts).

    A Jeet Kune Do certificate means you trained with Bruce Lee on a one-to-one basis. He reserved the right for himself; only he could give a certificate in Jeet Kune Do. Since Bruce died I cannot issue a certificate in Jeet kune Do, but I can issue a Jun Fan Gung-Fu certificate and pass on the concepts and principles that he gave me. In honor and memory of Bruce Lee I still have a Jeet Kune Do family and clan tree, which teaches the Jun Fan Gung-Fu and Jeet Kune Do concepts.
    So, to respond to your point, you see that Inosanto is clearly stating that he does not give people certifications in Bruce's JKD. He never has, and never will. Which, IMO, is a claim worth of respect.

    Gary Dill, the guy who taught Rain Burgess, claims to have recieved a "secret certification" from James Yimm Lee. That alone would be enough for me to call Bullshido, but Guro Insoanto's statement puts the nail in the coffin. James Lee died before Bruce did, so there was no way he'd sign off on any certificate without Bruce there as well.

    Looking at Dill's other qualifications.... Outside of the discredited JKD stuff, his other ranking is a 10th degree in "Bushido Kenpo". I can't find any trace of that outside of his own art. I made a quick search of Ed Parker black belts, and his name did not come up. Since Ed Parker would never have certified anyone as a 10th degree, I think Dill made up an art and gave himself a 10th degree in in.

    Is there anything I missed?

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    There has been about 10 famous guys that have been under 5 years.

    Damian Maia-4, Ciao Terra-3,Geo Martinez-3, Richie martinez-4, gunnar Nelson -4, DJ Jackson-4 but he wrestled his whole life, BJ Penn- 3 years 8+hours a day, Travis Stevens- 1.5 years but he was already a 2 time Judo Olypian

    All of these guys trained full time. Almost all of them trained Twice a day 5+ days a week.

    A Team Balance Black Belt got his in 5 years of training twice a day . His name is Anton. He is a force of nature. He will likely be a UFC Champ. If he doesn't get injured.
    I got mine in 8 years training 4 hours a day 3 to 6 days a week. Plus reading and watching film every free moment..... like right now.
    Nic Gregoriades, a Roger Gracie black belt, got his in around 3 or 4 years IIRC but is not advancing as fast through BB stripes now. And Kit Dale from Australia got his BB pretty fast too.

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