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  1. #51
    Pakeha
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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    That's why, unless your friend is a therapist, counselor etc, you go get professional help. Yes, helping him is key, but not to your own detriment.
    I am a counsellor by profession and I would highly recommend you get some help from a mental health professional in helping both yourself and your boyfriend. Talking to someone with this kind of professional training will help you decide what you need to do to look after yourself and also look after your boyfriend


    Abuse, which seems a big part of what we are talking about here ( along with some class A psychological manipultation), is something where the people who have been hut need to be gently dealt with as it is so traumatic.

    One way of looking at it is that they are being made powerless by their abuser, so you have to try and help them in such a way as not to put them into a situation where you are again taking power way from them to deal with the situation. However if it's one where serious harm is being done as it seem like form your story it may need you to step in an get out side intervention to prevent it getting worse.

    Talk to a counsellor and seriously consider involving the police.
    Last edited by Pakeha; 7/13/2012 5:46am at . Reason: grammar correct

  2. #52
    Scrapper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kynw261 View Post
    Well you definitely wouldn't experience that level of abuse right away, that would be extremely poor business on their end. You would have to experience mind rape for 10+ years in addition to cutting off your ties to the outside world.

    But I am interested too in seeing how this investigation will go.

    I also spoke to my boyfriend tonight and he is interested in trying to come to Boston with me to train (waaay early in the morning, before his regular "training"). He says he would like to actually train with other people for once. Good sign...

    I was trying to figure that out myself. I cannot invest years trying to get cultified, and it is unlikely that I will experience anything worse than bad mckwoon kung fu if I go to some classes. Just storming the place and beating up the instructors is useless and proves nothing, so what to do?

    We need members like yourself to step up and tell their tales. Pictures and video is even better. I can probably prove that they don't offer quality fighting instruction fairly easily, but that doth not a cult make.
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.

  3. #53
    W. Rabbit's Avatar
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    Non-violent, verbal self defense strategies?

    Wicked.

    Self-Defense to AVOID Being Bullied

    The Family Kung Fu Center's Bully Proof training will empower your child with the verbal strategies to stand up to bullies with unshakable confidence, and a series of non-violent self-defense techniques to keep them safe if they are physically attacked.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 7/13/2012 10:16am at .

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Antifa View Post
    Hey kynw261,

    I have a question that might be tactically important. If SiFu fuckface has to approve all relationships and such, he might could tell your Bf to break it off with you.

    What will he do?

    What will you do?
    My friends & family members have posed that question to me too...truthfully I've never asked my boyfriend that question because I wasn't sure I wanted to hear the answer. What would I do? If the Sifu forbid it and he left me? I guess I could start by causing the biggest **** storm/bad publicity movement possible on the school, only reason I haven't done that is because my bf is still so involved there.

    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja View Post
    Perhaps he'd be interested in attending a Boston Throwdown. Those are friendly ego-free sparring/training/grappling meetups we do every few months in cities around the globe (we coordinate them here on Bullshido).

    I imagine we'll do another before August is out. Talking in person with other martial enthusiasts who aren't in cults, might be refreshing, and help him attain clarity, on what he's going through.

    To me, this exemplifies Bullshido at its highest aspiration. Finding good training, and avoiding creepy cult mofos.
    That sounds awesome, is there a certain board here that announces these events? (I'll search the website a bit). Only issue would be the event would have to occur during the small window of opportunity which is his free time away from the school....might be able to work something out though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pakeha View Post

    One way of looking at it is that they are being made powerless by their abuser, so you have to try and help them in such a way as not to put them into a situation where you are again taking power way from them to deal with the situation. However if it's one where serious harm is being done as it seem like form your story it may need you to step in an get out side intervention to prevent it getting worse.

    Talk to a counsellor and seriously consider involving the police.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapper View Post
    I was trying to figure that out myself. I cannot invest years trying to get cultified, and it is unlikely that I will experience anything worse than bad mckwoon kung fu if I go to some classes. Just storming the place and beating up the instructors is useless and proves nothing, so what to do?

    We need members like yourself to step up and tell their tales. Pictures and video is even better. I can probably prove that they don't offer quality fighting instruction fairly easily, but that doth not a cult make.
    My current plan is thus:
    -Expose boyfriend to other martial art communities.
    -Talk to counselor at my college (only one I can afford right now)
    -Talk to my police officer friend for advice.
    -Contact past employees/students who deserted, try to gather evidence (I have a friend who still goes there, her husband is a super disgruntled ex-employee who said he knows of awful things that happened there...might be a good place to start).
    -Last resort, contact Rick Ross institute (cult intervention). But damn that one might end up costing money I don't have...I've already contacted his mother asking if she'd be on board with helping me out if it came to this last resort.

    But thanks everyone, it's been encouraging just to hear everyone condemn what goes on there, after being in an environment of "Sifu knows best, it's an honor just to be in his presence, only the strong can survive this environment, he wants to help us become perfect like him, etc.

  5. #55
    bemused's Avatar
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    Hello kynw261, I was in a martial arts cult out in California. There are four threads on my former cult, the last of which is here:

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=99446

    You can find the other three by searching for "Tae Yun Kim" or "Jung SuWon" on the Bullshido site.

    All cults are basically the same. The characters may have different names and wear different costumes, but it's the same plot over and over. Fortunately the ending isn't always the same. Many cults end "not with a bang, but a whimper."

    There is a cult expert located in Boston, Steven Hassan, who might be able to help. His website is www.freedomofmind.com. He has written two very good books, "Combating Cult Mind Control" and "Releasing the Bonds." He's a former Moonie and a licensed counselor. I have met him at cult conferences and if I had a kid in a cult I would trust him with my kid.

    The most important thing to understand about your situation is that you and your boyfriend are being controlled by fear and guilt. Some of the fear, like the fear of the cult leader's goon squad, has some basis in reality (although goons are as afraid as anyone else of being caught). But the sort of existential fears and guilt trips about being an ordinary person waiting to die and failing to save the world if you leave are bogus. All cults claim to have the only path to salvation. It's absurd, even laughable, if you think about it.

    They have fears too, and the biggest is fear of exposure. To a cult leader, reputation is everything. Go to the police, and you might consider going to the press as well. Even if the police can't do anything with your individual report, if they hear the same stories from more people, they can build a case. It's the same with journalists.

    I wouldn't recommend fighting with them. Even if you could do so effectively, you would be lowering yourself to their level and possibly complicating any future legal cases. Challenging them in a refereed contest might be a legitimate way to assess their competence, but I'd leave that to others.

    If you would like to communicate with me offline, you can send me a private message via Bullshido.

  6. #56

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    Thank you, bemused,

    I checked out Steven Hassan's website, and am going to fill out a Family Member Case Evaluation and Background Form. I might buy the books too, I am going to check out the website more extensively first.

    It is a bit of a relief to hear from someone who went through something similar/worse...it's feeling very lonely for me over her, I feel way in over my head. My only current ally is his mother (my parents would like to see him quit, but they're not quite sold on the idea of it being a cult...it's a subject that causes quite a bit of cognitive dissonance with people, it seems so unreal to be happening.)

    I did have a friend in the school who insisted she was going to leave with me, she was so upset about being there she would cry...when it came time to put her foot out the door though, she did a complete turnaround...."I can't abandon my Sifu and my community, I've put in so much time here, you don't understand, I am who I am today because of him..." So much for that support.

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by kynw261 View Post
    But thanks everyone, it's been encouraging just to hear everyone condemn what goes on there, after being in an environment of "Sifu knows best, it's an honor just to be in his presence, only the strong can survive this environment, he wants to help us become perfect like him, etc.
    Well, no offense, without proof, we really don't know what happened there. Members here are simply providing some steps you could take if your story is true. Since you are anonymous, and never saw many of the things you complain about, collectively we reserve judgement.

  8. #58
    solves problems with violence supporting member
    Ming Loyalist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Browning View Post
    Well, no offense, without proof, we really don't know what happened there. Members here are simply providing some steps you could take if your story is true. Since you are anonymous, and never saw many of the things you complain about, collectively we reserve judgement.
    yes, for me a big concern is that *according to the website* this school should be an OK place in terms of CMA training: they claim a history of full contact competition at the baltimore lei tai, they claim to offer sanda classes, and they claim to bring in certified grappling instructors to teach their ground work.

    So if the OP is presenting the truth, then there is a big difference between what they are saying they provide and what they actually provide (in terms of teaching fighting ability.) i would like to know how they did in the sanda circuit against marvin perry's guys, and if they are sending people to the baltimore lei tai tournament at the end of the month.

    of course they could be teaching good CMA and still be a cult, but the OP also claimed to have trained there to the level of black belt without knowing how to fight, which seems strange for a school with a sanda/lei tai focus.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Browning View Post
    Well, no offense, without proof, we really don't know what happened there. Members here are simply providing some steps you could take if your story is true. Since you are anonymous, and never saw many of the things you complain about, collectively we reserve judgement.
    Fine. Edit: ...condemn "the idea" of what "might" go on there

  10. #60
    bemused's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kynw261 View Post
    Thank you, bemused,

    I checked out Steven Hassan's website, and am going to fill out a Family Member Case Evaluation and Background Form. I might buy the books too, I am going to check out the website more extensively first.

    It is a bit of a relief to hear from someone who went through something similar/worse...it's feeling very lonely for me over her, I feel way in over my head. My only current ally is his mother (my parents would like to see him quit, but they're not quite sold on the idea of it being a cult...it's a subject that causes quite a bit of cognitive dissonance with people, it seems so unreal to be happening.)

    I did have a friend in the school who insisted she was going to leave with me, she was so upset about being there she would cry...when it came time to put her foot out the door though, she did a complete turnaround...."I can't abandon my Sifu and my community, I've put in so much time here, you don't understand, I am who I am today because of him..." So much for that support.
    The behavior you have actually witnessed is enough to establish that the school is a cult. A cult is defined by its deceptive facade, enticement of the vulnerable, and pervasive control by mental manipulation. As for the violence, you may not have witnessed it, but you witnessed its results. Are there medical records that could be used to make a case? Or photos? Such things are often used against abusive spouses.

    Your friend's reversal is typical. She's hooked in part by guilt and a sense of obligation. She's probably also hooked on the high that the shared cult fantasy can evoke. It's hard to leave. I was in the cult behind the Jung SuWon school for about ten years. When I'd get upset, I'd tell myself I could leave in six months if it didn't get better, and it got better each time, until I finally realized I wanted things out of life that the cult couldn't provide.

    My advice in regard to your friend is to remain a source of concerned but nonjudgmental support. Let her know you're there for her whether she stays in the cult or not. Don't make her feel like someday you will say, "I told you so," or she won't want to talk to you.

    Your boyfriend's situation is more serious because he has been injured, and he is living with you and closer to you emotionally, so you might be able to persuade him a bit more. Tell him that you love him and don't want to see him get hurt. Often the most effective message is the simplest.

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