BJJ + Systema

**Permalost** · Posted On: 7/10/2012 4:24pm

Originally Posted by RynoGreene

God, it would be fun to roll into a club like this and just maul everyone. If ever I needed a big ego-stoking, maybe I'd do it.

I've actually rolled with some systema folks (yeah, they grappled as part of regular class). It felt like they had a decent sense of transitioning with a very poor sense of positional control (if that makes sense). I remember after a while the teacher hopped in to roll with me, and he immediately went full speed and super aggressive, getting a scarf hold and making me tap by grinding his fist into my nose, then returning to relaxed systema guy. Felt like he was trying to prove something or other, but did so by abandoning the principles of his art and hulking out.

**karma2343** · Posted On: 4/01/2013 2:56pm

My favorite part of that video is the dude tapping because there is a knee on his thigh.

**Permalost** · Posted On: 4/01/2013 3:14pm

Originally Posted by HuntedRasta

Sounds like you were using a lot of a certain kind tension and the teacher decided to show his class one of the appropriate moments to use a little more energy.

I don't think so. I have enough of a martial arts background to know when someone's hulking and speeding up (and when I'm doing those things).

You see Systema does not teach you always to be relaxed. It teaches you to be relaxed whenever you can afford to, and to understand your tensions, so that you can use the amount of force necessary when the time comes; not more, not less.

I understand the distinction you're making, but on a practical level, that usually means teaching/conditioning a person to relax. Rarely do you have to remind and drill people to use more tension; they tend to already have some extra, in the shoulders, neck etc. When you drill, does your systema coach have to remind people to stay relaxed, or remind people to use more tension? In the classes I did, they were always going around lightly slapping the shoulders and traps to encourage relaxation, not tension.

Either that or the teacher was not fit to be a Systema instructor.

I think my assessment was as I described it, and that he failed to use systema to beat me, but I wouldn't say he's unfit to teach the art. Systema will need better standards, internal policing, and philosophical + technical consistency before it can say some guy's not fit to teach it. They need to make it a less hit-or-miss art with real-world proof before they can say systema is high enough quality to put the bar above others.

**Gezere** · Posted On: 4/03/2013 2:48am

Originally Posted by Necroyunus

Is it me, or BJJ is being used more and more as a "credibility tool"

That is exactly the trend I've seen lately. I have recently be asked to attend a KMA school for not other reason that I can think of except to give it more "credibility" given my background and reputation.

**SmH** · Posted On: 4/03/2013 9:53am

Originally Posted by erezb

Wow first time i saw such a ridiculous systema demo. It looks like russian Ikido.
I am sad to say that this looks like a waste of time. Those slap punches while skipping on one leg didn't seem too real to me.
This is very strange. usually russians are very pragmatic, they don't tend to waste time on crap..and this is some serious crap.

The ironic thing is that this might be the reason why Systema persists. It's Russian, so obviously it hast got to be tough and the real deal, right?

**RUSSIANBULL** · Posted On: 5/19/2013 2:58pm

Check out Systema, Martin Wheeler is good.

***jnp*** · Posted On: 5/19/2013 3:14pm

Originally Posted by RUSSIANBULL

Check out Systema, Martin Wheeler is good.

You mean the guy this thread is about?

Failing to read the thread you posted in does not help you here.

**gregaquaman** · Posted On: 5/19/2013 11:47pm

Making the point about people being wibbly wobbly.

Do you think it is the training that turns people into that sort of collapsing tap monkey?

It would add another dimention as to why unresisted training is so dreadfull. You can almost see the transition of these people moving towards the benny himm style KOs

**gregaquaman** · Posted On: 5/19/2013 11:56pm

Looking at wrestling drills and I see a difference but am not sure how to properly describe it.

Ses it is not really resisted traing but they are not giving out free falls either.

**OwlMatt** · Posted On: 5/20/2013 11:42am

Originally Posted by Necroyunus

Is it me, or BJJ is being used more and more as a "credibility tool"

Absolutely. It's gotten so bad around here that that clubs are advertising that they teach "jiu-jitsu" and slyly hinting that it's BJJ in order to sound more credible.

Case in point: http://www.americandojo.com/martialArts.asp
"Jiu-Jitsu is an important part of the MMA training at our Milwaukee area dojo."

Notice he doesn't call it Brazilian or Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. That's because what he's actually teaching (as a reader with a critical eye can tell from reading the preceding paragraph) is a mishmash culled together from some lessons in judo and BJJ, neither of which he is actually qualified to teach. But he can get customers to bite by promising jiu-jitsu as part of a mixed martial arts regimen.