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  1. Hanniballistic is offline
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    By the Hoary Hand of Hoggoth.....

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    Posted On:
    6/27/2012 1:59pm


     Style: JKD & Mok'bara

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    But worth it IMO :)
  2. Lindz is offline

    Senior Member

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    Burnaby B.C.
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    Posted On:
    6/27/2012 2:06pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Join up? Get the taxpayer to buy it for you.
  3. slamdunc is online now
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    Extraordinarily Ordinary

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    Illinois
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    Posted On:
    6/27/2012 2:08pm

    supporting member
     Style: TKD, CMA & American Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hanniballistic View Post
    But worth it IMO :)
    True, I had my administrator hat on again. Good training is always worth the cost, and indefensible if you could have provided it and didn't.


  4. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Nov 2012
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    San Diego
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    12,530

    Posted On:
    6/27/2012 2:36pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A few years back, I was able to watch an arena paintball competition, and it seemed to me that the useful skill it develops is shooting and moving as a team, communicating etc. Seems that this would be a useful skill for small units/groups, but not so much if your intent is "to learn how to use a firearm". Using a firearm would be the way to do that.
  5. SteveM is offline

    Lightweight

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    Central Texas
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    181

    Posted On:
    6/27/2012 4:09pm

    Business Class Supporting Membersupporting member
     Central Texas Combatives Training Group Style: AMOK!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hackworth View Post
    Would playing paintball and air soft be a good way to learn how to use a firearm?
    "Playing"...not so much. Using as a training tool...absolutely.

    Specifically I'll speak to airsoft, because it's most useful and accessible for civilians. No doubt, for an agency with pie-in-the-sky budgets and facilities, simunitions is the way to go.

    The airsoft "hobby" has produced airsoft pistols that are the same as or very close to the dimensions and weight of an actual pistol. These pistols can be pricey, $100+ but are well worth the money.

    I know a lot of guys are reluctant to buy a quality airsoft pistol because of the stigma it's a "toy", or they associate airsoft with a bunch of fat kids in camo playing "capture the flag". But an airsoft pistol matching the design and weight of your carry pistol is an incredibly valuable training tool. With airsoft, nearly everyone has the ability to have a pistol range at home. With a modern gas-powered blowback pistol the only thing missing is the recoil.

    Is it exactly like shooting an actual firearm? No.

    It it close enough to provide considerable training value, particularly when training movement and alternate sighting methods? Yes.

    If you already have a dryfire regimen of say ten "draw-to-trigger-presses" per day, imagine how much more value you could get out of ten drawstrokes PLUS ten first shots?

    Get a training partner involved and BAM!: aliveness in gunfight training. Have you ever tried to draw and fire your actual firearm while backpedalling from a surprise knife assault? And when was the last time you trained on the "two-way range" where someone is shooting at you? The benefits of training with airsoft far outweigh the limitations of no recoil.

    If any of this is making sense to you and you live in or around Texas, come to one of our airsoft Force-on-Force events. These are highly structured "discovery learning" sessions where you get to experience the actual context of several gunfights and knife assaults, minus the noise, blood, and ballistic effects.

    And seriously, who wouldn't prefer to have their shortcomings revealed in the gentle touch of a 400fps plastic pellet fired by a friend, instead of a 1200fps jacketed hollow point bullet fired by a bad guy? It's about feeling the love.
  6. Hanniballistic is offline
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    By the Hoary Hand of Hoggoth.....

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    Qo'noS
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    2,166

    Posted On:
    6/27/2012 6:02pm


     Style: JKD & Mok'bara

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Actually I forgot the airsoft option...good call!
  7. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Rhineland Pfalz, Der Vaderland
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    Posted On:
    6/28/2012 9:23am

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by slamdunc View Post
    Simunition is great, but it is pricey.


    Extremely pricey. Back when I was running the MOUT sites and shoot house in TRADOC I had to cut some of our rotations because we were blowing through our budget.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  8. MarJoe is offline

    Registered Member

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    Jun 2012
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    NE Oklahoma
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    Posted On:
    6/30/2012 10:57am


     Style: Western Boxing

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    IMO, nothing prepares you for the noise and bullets cracking past your ear. Train with live fire and good instructor. Then keep traing and live firing. So if the time comes when you are in a firefight,your training will take over.
  9. Bikewer

    Guest

    Posted On:
    7/20/2012 4:24pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm an LEO, and most of our training over the years is of course of the range variety. We have done a variety of attempts at more realistic training.
    There is the "FATS" system, an automated video with various scenarios and laser-equipped handguns that records your hits on the "bad guy" (or the innocent if you choose poorly!"

    Most officers find this to be a fairly intense situation, and often experience the same stress-induced physiological problems that officers in combat do... Tunnel vision, poor marksmanship, not knowing how many shots were fired... That sort of thing.

    Another is the "Preparation for armed combat" training, which usually features live-action scenarios with the role-playing trainer going for a weapon at some point. The weapons use wax-impregnated cotton balls that sting rather smartly... Much like paintball I expect.

    Still another are the various sorts of "Hogan's Alley" shooting ranges where targets appear unexpectedly from around cover, and may include "bad guys" and civilians.

    We just went through a tactical training course that involves the Columbine-like scenario of armed attackers at a large facility... Basically a terrorist attack Mumbai-style.
    We used airsoft pistols and rifles, and had to deal both with bad guy and civilian role-players... The bad guys shot back.
    Pretty intense stuff.
    You can teach principals. You can teach weapon-handling and use of cover and lines of sight and clearing procedures and all that. You can work those things till they're part of your muscle-memory.
    But I don't think any of this gets to the adrenaline-dump psychological/physiological stress levels of actual combat, where real BGs are trying to kill you.
    Some folks remain calm and cool in such situations, some don't.
  10. slamdunc is online now
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    Extraordinarily Ordinary

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    Illinois
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    Posted On:
    7/20/2012 4:42pm

    supporting member
     Style: TKD, CMA & American Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
    There is the "FATS" system, an automated video with various scenarios and laser-equipped handguns that records your hits on the "bad guy" (or the innocent if you choose poorly!"
    FATS has evolved (sort of); I teach LaserShot as part of the law enforcement program at a local college. I also do the in-hous training for local le agencies. http://lasershot.com/.

    This interactive training is more realistic than the old FATS. The firearms are actual Glocks that have been converted to fire laser light, and have a C02 cartridge that actually simulates recoil. You can even video your own scenarios and incorporate shoot / don't shoot decisions.



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