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  1. mike321 is online now

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    Posted On:
    7/07/2012 2:46pm


     Style: kenpo, Wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Antifa,

    I hope you haven't rejected my ideas out of hand. I know they are boring and seem out of touch compared to bringing rallies and getting higher levels of attention. In either case, another idea, when a police department that you have issues with has openings, advertise the fact in your newsletters/web pages. At the end of the day police departments are made up of people. Local government is very nuts and bolts. I get a little crazy when I see local jurisdictions passing grandiose resolutions and proclamations. Or passing laws to address a national or world issue they know will get struck down.
  2. Antifa is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/08/2012 5:34pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike321 View Post

    I hope you haven't rejected my ideas out of hand.
    I've rejected them out of 20 years of experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by mike321 View Post
    I know they are boring and seem out of touch compared to bringing rallies and getting higher levels of attention.
    Political work is tedious. There are a billion mundane tasks that go into just making a rally for instance.


    Quote Originally Posted by mike321 View Post
    In either case, another idea, when a police department that you have issues with has openings, advertise the fact in your newsletters/web pages. At the end of the day police departments are made up of people.
    So, let me get this straight... The world would be better, and there would be fewer fascists if we all just went out and joined the police, which is full of fascists and people with a worldview not that far from fascism?

    That is one of the stupidest, most deluded, sadly paternalistic things I've heard in a good long time.
  3. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/08/2012 6:33pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by adskibullus View Post
    It is when its based on the colour of their skin or because of their faith. The whole immigrants taking my job line is bollocks aswell, its not the immigrants they should be blaming its the government.

    British industry has changed over the years meaning not as many low skilled workers are needed. Meaning higher education and knowledge of technical skills is more important as you cant just leave school with nothing and get a job down the mines or in factories like you used to because covernments both tory and labour have killed industrial Britain.
    So opposition to immigration by white polish protestants isn't racist, but opposition to white polish catholics is racist?

    Come on.

    Manufacturing is a complex issue. The value of manufacturing output in the UK is actually the highest its been in decades.



    However, that doesn't necessarily mean jobs have kept pace with value. Automation of much of manufacturing has slashed jobs, but boosted productivity. I don't think many people would rather have more people employed by manufacturing, but have to wait longer and pay more for the goods produced, which is what you would have to have to undo automation.

    More importantly manufacturing as a chunk of the wealth creating sector of the world economy has shrunk.



    Manufacturing is experiencing the same phenomenon as agriculture. As we grow richer as a society we automate more processes. Jobs in that specific sector are lost, but as a society we grow richer. After all working 80 hours in a hot, noisy, dangerous factory is much worse than working 45 hours in an air conditioned office with coffee and tea making facilities.

    Immigration is a minor factor in the decline of manufacturing as an employer and even less as a factor in the shrinking as manufacturing as a chunk of the economy.

    Manufacturing is shrinking in even in China.

    Immigration has the greatest impact on low paid and low skilled jobs.

    These are jobs filled by the poorest in society. Go into a Pret a Manger in London and you will struggle to find an English person behind the counter.

    Drop by a potato grader on a Lincolnshire farm and you will struggle to find an English person at the conveyor belt.

    The previous Labour government had a deliberate policy to change the fabric of British society by opening the flood gates to immigration. They then called any working class person who said 'Errm excuse me why is my neighbourhood changing and why are low paid low skilled jobs harder to find' a racist.

    Remember Gordon Brown and Gillian Duffy. He dismissed her legitimate concerns as her being a 'bigoted woman'



    They've now realised how big an impact their policy of immigration has had on their core vote and tried to row back and issue an apology.



    The problem is that a combination of the minimum wage, EU free movement of people rules and Labour's open door immigration policy. Is that the poorest people in Britain now how have worse job prospects and see about them a fundamental cultural change in the areas that they live.

    10 years ago there was no Polish isle in the local Tesco. 10 years ago there were no issues with a lack of Polish speaking teachers at the local comp.

    Britain has been fundamentally has been fundamentally and irrevocably changed by Labour's immigration policies.

    You can debate whether that was a good or a bad thing. However, what it is not up for debate is the rapidity of the change or the centrally planned nature of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by adskibullus View Post
    But the education system is poor and doesnt equip young people with the skills needed to suitb the changing industrial landscpe. too many young people who arent acedemic get fustrated, misbehave develop a bad attitude and leave school with nothing then cant get a job.

    Instead of blaming the unfair system they take it out on the nearest brown person this needs to change and the organisations ( BNP/ EDL) who brainwash these people need to be erased.
    We agree on the colossal failings of the education system. I think we have discussed this before and agreed on my callings for a return to technical education, alongside academic education, teaching people trades and real skills and a return to respecting trades like building, plumbing, electricians etc... Not just lawyers, bankers, popstars and footballers.

    One of the greatest crimes of the last Labour government was conning a generation of young people into thinking that a degree in Media studies from the polytechnic of Buggerall was worth £30,000's worth of debt and would help them find a job.

    The idea that 50% of the population going to university wouldn't devalue a university degree and that coupled with student loans it wouldn't leave millions of young people with worthless degrees and massive debts was utter fucking madness.

    Then again the problem with Labour is they always run out of other people's money.

    Quote Originally Posted by adskibullus View Post
    The problem is the police dont marshall the events properly. They shouldn't even be able to hold marches when they display blatant racism, its not a protest its a mini riot.

    in the video you posted you see the EDL kicking off even when there is no UAF presence they have no political agenda they just dont like muslims moderate ones or not and will fight among themselfs.
    Did the teach you in school about Pastor Niemöller? I was and it has stuck with me ever since. I think it's one of the most powerful lessons any young person can learn and is worth repeating.

    Niemöller wrote:

    Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten,
    habe ich geschwiegen;
    ich war ja kein Kommunist.

    Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten,
    habe ich geschwiegen;
    ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.

    Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten,
    habe ich nicht protestiert;
    ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.

    Als sie die Juden holten,
    habe ich geschwiegen;
    ich war ja kein Jude.

    Als sie mich holten,
    gab es keinen mehr, der protestierte.

    In English

    When the Nazis came for the Communists, I remained silent, because I wasn't a Communist.

    When they confined the Social democrats, I remained silent, I wasn't a Social democrat.

    When they came for the trade unionists, I didn't protests, I wasn't a trade unionist.

    When they came for the Jews, I remained silent, I wasn't a Jew.

    When the came for me, there was no one left to protest.

    If you refuse the right of free speech to people you disagree with tyranny will triumph.

    The best way to defeat obnoxious views is to allow the purifying of sunlight.

    Nothing damaged the credibility of the BNP more than Nick Griffin appearing on Question Time.

    That programme was utterly devastating for them. Despite a recession, which usually favours extremes of left and right the BNP has only continued to hemorrhage votes in the wake of Griffin's question time appearance.

    Put the EDL and the BNP on a platform and watch the destroy themselves. The best way to combat these people is in open debate, they always lose and always end up looking ridiculous.

    Denying them a platform and denying them the right to free speech is the greatest recruiting tool you could ever gift to them.
  4. mike321 is online now

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    Posted On:
    7/08/2012 9:34pm


     Style: kenpo, Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Antifa View Post
    So, let me get this straight... The world would be better, and there would be fewer fascists if we all just went out and joined the police, which is full of fascists and people with a worldview not that far from fascism?

    That is one of the stupidest, most deluded, sadly paternalistic things I've heard in a good long time.
    I will focus on these sections just so I don't go all over the place. First, I am not talking about the WORLD, the question is about engaging one city. Next the idea behind police recruitment is not to reduce the number of fascists in this world. The idea is help get non-fascists to apply. This may not work, a given department may have the hiring process screwed. On the other hand, do a lot of people who agree with you apply? I think it's a legit question. And your hyperbole about EVERYONE joining the police as a solution is not even close to what I said. I hope I am not deluded in my observation that police departments seem to vary greatly by department. Maybe some bullies with LEO background can comment. As for paternalistic, what does that mean? My advise sounds fatherly? I am middle aged so that could be a possibility! Is that a bad thing?

    Edited for spelling. Probably more spelling and grammar mistake though.
  5. Hedgehogey is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2012 4:16am

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    Boy i'm so glad that every thread where my politics are mentioned in passing turns into this! Never heard this idea that Not All Cops Are Bad and What You Kids Ought To Be Doing Is Reform before!


    "The only important elements in any society
    are the artistic and the criminal,
    because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
    can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany

    RENDERING GELATINOUS WINDMILL OF DICKS

    THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST NON-EUCLIDIAN SPLATTERJOUST EVER

    It seems that the only people who support anarchy are faggots, who want their pathetic immoral lifestyle accepted by the mainstream society. It wont be so they try to create their own.-Oldman34, friend to all children
  6. erezb is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2012 6:23am


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    Quote Originally Posted by adskibullus View Post
    Erm no were fighting against fascist organisations like the English defence league and British national party who hold large demonstrations in public places mainly in area's with high numbers of ethnic minorities chanting things like " get Muslims off our streets ".

    They cause fear in the local community by handing out properganda leaflets Islam taking over Europe etc etc. This is lies and is aimed at demonising the local Muslim community and trying to fracture the bond between the Muslim and other faiths.

    I've been on small demos against them the idea being that the counter demonstrate against them to let them know that their opinions aren't wanted and that the British people won't stand for racists thugs.

    Maybe this makes me ignorant who knows
    Muslims are doing a great job themselves they don't need the Nazies, besides their agenda is also racist, against Gays other faiths women act' act'. Wanting to empose the Muslim sharia laws everywhere including Europe.


    I think it is important to fight for your beliefs just in the court of law like a law abiding citizen! Most activists are just looking for a cause so they can have fun being violent and feeling important and brave basically adrenaline junkies. The smarter ones make a career out of it and become cops or soldiers.
  7. lordbd is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2012 6:34am


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    Quote Originally Posted by erezb View Post
    I think it is important to fight for your beliefs just in the court of law like a law abiding citizen! Most activists are just looking for a cause so they can have fun being violent and feeling important and brave basically adrenaline junkies. The smarter ones make a career out of it and become cops or soldiers.
    I don't pretend to really understand politics, and I'm not sure I agree with the politics in question here. Free speech and hate speech are complicated issues. But I do agree that part of being a fully functioning human being is standing up for your beliefs in the way you think is most appropriate, and being willing to deal with any consequences of that.

    Gene Tunney may have said it best...

  8. erezb is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2012 7:31am


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    Quote Originally Posted by lordbd View Post
    I don't pretend to really understand politics, and I'm not sure I agree with the politics in question here. Free speech and hate speech are complicated issues. But I do agree that part of being a fully functioning human being is standing up for your beliefs in the way you think is most appropriate, and being willing to deal with any consequences of that.

    Gene Tunney may have said it best...

    I almost agree with you completely but for the "you" part. I think you should fight for your beliefs in the way society agrees is most appropriate, which usually means abiding the laws of said society. Anarchy is bad, humens are bad, there is a reason why we have so many laws to control our natural instincts of flailing **** and biting each other when angry. I for a second don't think a character like Antifa is a good person, if he is violent for a "good cause" on a regular basis he is also violent when his naighbour makes too much noise or when a driver cuts him on the road ect. Same with Hedge's behavior, i didn't see in that video a nice kid defending some damsel in distress, i saw a disturbed hysterical at times, conflicted individual whom i won't feel comfortable deciding between "what's good and bad". Beating a guy up, humiliating him as much as possible and than trying to pretend you are a good guy because he did something bad won't cut it. If you are going to be this bad ass tough guy that takes matters to his own hands, decides what is punishable and what is not, don't make stupid accuses. Own up. Be Gangsta all the way, make the final little leap and loose the hypocrisy.
    We saw a video of a guy dominating another guy, that is all. Not a defender of the weak, just a better fighter, The only unique thing here was that the stronger one is white and doesn't look tough when the other guy is black and dressed up like he is a toughy.
  9. mike321 is online now

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2012 8:15am


     Style: kenpo, Wrestling

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehogey View Post
    Boy i'm so glad that every thread where my politics are mentioned in passing turns into this! Never heard this idea that Not All Cops Are Bad and What You Kids Ought To Be Doing Is Reform before!
    Not familiar with your politics, do you believe all cops are bad and the system is beyond reform? Not interested in debating, just curious what they are and what led to them. Also, the fact that you have heard similar ideas does not make them right or wrong.
  10. Antifa is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2012 10:41am

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike321 View Post
    Not familiar with your politics, do you believe all cops are bad
    Most.

    Quote Originally Posted by mike321 View Post
    and the system is beyond reform?
    Yes. Absolutely and without reservation

    Quote Originally Posted by mike321 View Post
    Not interested in debating,
    Then why are you debating?


    Quote Originally Posted by mike321 View Post
    just curious what they are and what led to them.
    Why? If you dont want to debate (our beliefs?) them politically but you want to know what led to them, are you a priori assuming that they stem from some pathology rather than rational discourse?

    Quote Originally Posted by mike321 View Post
    Also, the fact that you have heard similar ideas does not make them right or wrong.
    I makes them sad cardboard tropes is what it makes them
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