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  1. slamdunc is online now
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    Extraordinarily Ordinary

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    Feb 2005
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    Posted On:
    6/26/2012 5:25pm

    supporting member
     Style: TKD, CMA & American Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Personally, I'd rather train in mediocre Dutch muay thai than good Olympic TKD.
    That puts it in terms I can relate to. Is there really such a thing as good Olympic Tae Kwon Do in that sense? I love the martial sport of Tae Kwon Do, but IMHO, any striking or grappling system would be much better for self-defense.


  2. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/26/2012 6:21pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jjc View Post
    They are obviously the best non-boxing striking school Corpus Christi. I just don't want to learn bad habits, that's all. Five years back I got to train with a professional Thai Boxer. It was great but he only stayed in town for a month. Every since then, I've been looking hard for Muay Thai.
    Thanks. So you know just enough to not know anything. You could train with Mike Tyson, Pacquio, Holyfield, ALi and Cus D'amoto for a month and still not know anything. Yeah, I was you once upon a time and spent 15 years in a MCDojo.

    As for the MMA fighters who teach "Muay Thai", no they have no Thai Boxing experience. Around here, every MMA gym claims to teach Muay Thai but in reality its just general MMA striking. You know like those MMA gyms that advertise wrestling and judo but in reality they just throw in some judo and wrestling takedowns in their bjj curriculum.
    No, I don't know. You've put up only one website.

    No dedicated wrestling class where you drill takedowns, throws and positioning. I went to a free class once where the bjj instructor, who was a purple at the time, said he's going to teach us some greco-roman wrestling. Did he have experience in wrestling? Nope. I asked if he knew any martial arts other than bjj and he said no.
    If you want to do TKD do it, but for the love of God please stop nitpicking how YOU would run a BJJ or MMA school. That's all I'm hearing right now.

    Posters: Dude you'll learn bad habits.
    jjc; It isn't muay Thai.
    Posters: Dutch Kickboixng is fine.
    jjc: These guys don't teach they way I want.
    Iif: Go take TKD and quit looking for approval.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 6/26/2012 6:25pm at .
  3. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Nov 2012
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    Posted On:
    6/26/2012 6:54pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm just going to add that Dutch muay thai kicks ass in both MMA and muay thai, even against "real" muay thai fighters.
  4. jjc is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/26/2012 7:32pm


     Style: Boxing and Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Thanks. So you know just enough to not know anything. You could train with Mike Tyson, Pacquio, Holyfield, ALi and Cus D'amoto for a month and still not know anything. Yeah, I was you once upon a time and spent 15 years in a MCDojo.
    I know next to nothing about Thai Boxing. I know the classes were a blast for the month he was there. I know I want to learn it.

    No, I don't know. You've put up only one website.
    I was trying to explain that MMA gyms here in town advertise Muay Thai but don't have dedicated classes and instructors for those disciplines. Except the school I linked, but their style is dutch and I'm not looking for that. Although it may be my only option. I was comparing this to how MMA gyms advertise wrestling and judo, but don't have dedicated classes taught by instructors in that discipline. Perphaps you're lucky and have MMA gyms that hire instructors for each discipline where you live, but that's not the case where I'm at.

    If you want to do TKD do it, but for the love of God please stop nitpicking how YOU would run a BJJ or MMA school. That's all I'm hearing right now.
    I'm a nitpicking customer.

    Posters: Dude you'll learn bad habits.
    jjc; It isn't muay Thai.
    Posters: Dutch Kickboixng is fine.
    jjc: These guys don't teach they way I want.
    Iif: Go take TKD and quit looking for approval.
    Looking for opinions, not approval. And I appreciate those who have responded.
  5. jjc is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/26/2012 7:45pm


     Style: Boxing and Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    I'm just going to add that Dutch muay thai kicks ass in both MMA and muay thai, even against "real" muay thai fighters.
    Interesting about the success in Muay Thai fights. I thought dutch didn't allow elbows and focused less on the clinch?
  6. Azatdawn is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/27/2012 1:04am


     Style: Thaiboxing; MMA nb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So you can't get the "real" Muay Thai your heart is longing for so deeply ever since that one month with a Muay Thai guy and you'd rather settle for TKD than an MMA school that teaches (Dutch) Muay Thai and has fighters competing in Muay Thai fights?
  7. ashkelon is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/27/2012 2:01am


     Style: Striking, grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jjc View Post
    Interesting about the success in Muay Thai fights. I thought dutch didn't allow elbows and focused less on the clinch?
    that's because they're too busy punching and kicking the crap out of their opponents.
  8. Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs is offline
    Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs's Avatar

    fist first Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    6/27/2012 3:27am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Savate (LBF/SD/LC) - BJJ

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    at the OP,

    I used to train Dutch-Style Muay Thai and you really don't understand what the difference is between "Dutch-Style" and "Original" Muay Thai or that the "Dutch-Style" is the most dominant and market standard in the Muay Thai world (meaning: the better one of the two styles).

    Brief explanation:
    When a Japanese Knockdown Karateka was defeated in the sixties by a Muay Thai fighter, he wised up. He brought a Muay Thai expert and an English Boxing expertto his Japanese Dojo where he mixed the three arts (Knockdown Karate, Muay Thai and English Boxing) together to one art: Japanese Kickboxing.
    With a Japanese Kickboxing team he went back to Thailand and dominated the Muay Thai scene there.
    Some Dutch people trained with him in Japan and when they went back to the Netherlands in the seventies they opened two gyms that tought Japanese Kickboxing. The students that trained there started to dominate the International (American) Kickboxing scene and the international Muay Thai scene (even to this day). That's why the Dutch Muay Thai fighters still call themselfs "Kickboxers".

    While Japanese Kickboxing in its original form died out in Japan (it has two offshoots: K1-Kickboxing and Shootboxing), it flurist in The Netherlands.
    All the other countries in Europe important the American Kickboxing form.

    The Muay Thai scene that was starting in the rest of Europe and North America, where the fighting style was imported from Thailand had two options: become a second rank player under their own ruleset or adapt to Japanese Kickboxing to become a competitor.
    They chose the second option and Dutch-Style Muay Thai was born.

    Nowadays the International Muay Thai scene and the MMA scene is dominated by Dutch Kickboxers (still training Japanese Kickboxing) and Dutch-Style Muay Thai fighters.

    The original Muay Thai is only fought in Thailand where it's used in local competitors competitions and in competitions against fighters of other SEA (South East Asian) countries.
    If local Muay Thai fighters want to go into the international scene (only a few do), they start to adapt their style by bringing in Dutch-Style Muay Thai fighters to train them.

    BTW:
    1) elbows exist and are legal to use in Dutch-Style Muay Thai and Japanese Kickboxing.
    They aren't focused so much on, because you need first to pass a barrage of fists to come into elbow distance.

    2) The clinch is also there, but because a Dutch-Style Muay Thaier has more striking options compared to an original style Muay Thaier there's a more balanced use of the clinch.

    3) In the long run it will be healthier to train Dutch-Style instead of Original-Style, especially if you want to do competitions: the boxing guard prevents a lot more impact to the head than the original guard.

    I can tell you a story of my friend Nico Verresen who is a house hold name in the European Muay Thai scene: when he started to do competitions he used to fight in original Muay Thai and even when he won he got damaged a lot. Nobody could change his mind about switching to Dutch-Style.
    The reason was that his Muay Thai hero and a former champion used Original-Style. The change came from him (early in his career) when he met his youth hero and talked to him: a life long of taking damage because of the original guard made him slow and he couldn't focus for even a short conversation.
    After that incounter Nico switched to Dutch-Style overnight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiujitsu77
    You know you are crazy about BJJ/Martial arts when...
    Quote Originally Posted by Humanzee
    ...your books on Kama Sutra and BJJ are interchangeable.
    Quote Originally Posted by jk55299 on Keysi Fighting Method
    It looks like this is a great fighting method if someone replaces your shampoo with superglue.
    The real deadly:
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/27/2012 8:53am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Azatdawn View Post
    So you can't get the "real" Muay Thai your heart is longing for so deeply ever since that one month with a Muay Thai guy and you'd rather settle for TKD than an MMA school that teaches (Dutch) Muay Thai and has fighters competing in Muay Thai fights?
    Well at least you see it similar to me. He doesn't want approval, but he sure dissects why he doesn't want to do MMA striking, Dutch Kickboxing or anything that teaches better kicks minus the bad habits.

    Again, if you want to take TKD do it and have fun.
  10. jjc is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
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    Posted On:
    6/27/2012 9:07am


     Style: Boxing and Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs View Post
    at the OP,

    I used to train Dutch-Style Muay Thai and you really don't understand what the difference is between "Dutch-Style" and "Original" Muay Thai or that the "Dutch-Style" is the most dominant and market standard in the Muay Thai world (meaning: the better one of the two styles).

    Brief explanation:
    When a Japanese Knockdown Karateka was defeated in the sixties by a Muay Thai fighter, he wised up. He brought a Muay Thai expert and an English Boxing expertto his Japanese Dojo where he mixed the three arts (Knockdown Karate, Muay Thai and English Boxing) together to one art: Japanese Kickboxing.
    With a Japanese Kickboxing team he went back to Thailand and dominated the Muay Thai scene there.
    Some Dutch people trained with him in Japan and when they went back to the Netherlands in the seventies they opened two gyms that tought Japanese Kickboxing. The students that trained there started to dominate the International (American) Kickboxing scene and the international Muay Thai scene (even to this day). That's why the Dutch Muay Thai fighters still call themselfs "Kickboxers".

    While Japanese Kickboxing in its original form died out in Japan (it has two offshoots: K1-Kickboxing and Shootboxing), it flurist in The Netherlands.
    All the other countries in Europe important the American Kickboxing form.

    The Muay Thai scene that was starting in the rest of Europe and North America, where the fighting style was imported from Thailand had two options: become a second rank player under their own ruleset or adapt to Japanese Kickboxing to become a competitor.
    They chose the second option and Dutch-Style Muay Thai was born.

    Nowadays the International Muay Thai scene and the MMA scene is dominated by Dutch Kickboxers (still training Japanese Kickboxing) and Dutch-Style Muay Thai fighters.

    The original Muay Thai is only fought in Thailand where it's used in local competitors competitions and in competitions against fighters of other SEA (South East Asian) countries.
    If local Muay Thai fighters want to go into the international scene (only a few do), they start to adapt their style by bringing in Dutch-Style Muay Thai fighters to train them.

    BTW:
    1) elbows exist and are legal to use in Dutch-Style Muay Thai and Japanese Kickboxing.
    They aren't focused so much on, because you need first to pass a barrage of fists to come into elbow distance.

    2) The clinch is also there, but because a Dutch-Style Muay Thaier has more striking options compared to an original style Muay Thaier there's a more balanced use of the clinch.

    3) In the long run it will be healthier to train Dutch-Style instead of Original-Style, especially if you want to do competitions: the boxing guard prevents a lot more impact to the head than the original guard.

    I can tell you a story of my friend Nico Verresen who is a house hold name in the European Muay Thai scene: when he started to do competitions he used to fight in original Muay Thai and even when he won he got damaged a lot. Nobody could change his mind about switching to Dutch-Style.
    The reason was that his Muay Thai hero and a former champion used Original-Style. The change came from him (early in his career) when he met his youth hero and talked to him: a life long of taking damage because of the original guard made him slow and he couldn't focus for even a short conversation.
    After that incounter Nico switched to Dutch-Style overnight.
    Very informative. Thank you.
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