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  1. Gezere is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/28/2012 2:03pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [QUOTE=ccwscott;2700546][QUOTE=Gezere;2700320]

    A boxing match that happens outside of a ring, in the streets, without written consent where no one is a professional boxer, where you can start a boxing match by blindsiding any random stranger you run into and there aren't any written codified rules about what's allowed, isn't a boxing match, it's a riot. We don't allow that in society because it would be insane. But switch assault to sexual assault and suddenly there's a group of people who think it's a swell idea.

    And consent can be withdrawn during a boxing match. A boxing match is more analogous to a bedroom with your wife. If you're in the bedroom with your wife, and you grab her boob, and she turns around and slaps you, that's odd if she hasn't given any reason for you to think that's not okay. STILL you can't turn around and beat her to the point of risking death. But doing this alone in a bedroom with your wife is a lot different then just declaring it "boob grab festival day" and anyone who doesn't understand or wants to go out and have a good time without being assaulted, well too fucking bad for you, and if you disagree we'll kill you.
    Funny how it went from a single punch to beating to death. It shows you really don't know what you're talking about. You are passing judgement on something you really don't understand and don't want to admit it.

    One of two things has to be true. Either he crossed over a huge line, or you're full of it when you insist that these cultural norms are 100% ubiquitous, completely understood by *wider* society not just bacchanal regulars, and are clear and well defined. Either that or you have to imagine this chick goes to this event where she knows she's going to be constantly rubbed up against, is getting constantly rubbed up against, and then just picks out one guy for no reason to get angry at and smack with a flip flop. It's possible but it's clearly less likely than the alternative.
    I would wager he crossed over a line, and given that he was expelled, I don't see how it's possible that these cultural norms are as wide and clear as you're saying. And honestly, if you think it's okay to deck someone so hard they lift off the ground because they hit you with a flip flop, I by default assume everything you have to say about this issue is unreliable.
    Did you actually read what I wrote or are you running off your own dialogue? More than likely he got expelled for decking the girl it is only speculation on what he actually did to get slapped. I've even stated several times that if he did something to deserve it it must have been pretty bad even for Bacchanal. Try understanding that before you tell me what you think you know.

    If a person gets sexually assaulted, hits the guy with a flip-flop, and then gets decked so hard they catch air, and that's okay, that's well beyond the threshhold where I care if "it's just their culture" There's no excuse for that. That could have killed her. You don't murder people when you are in no danger. You don't need sensitivity training to know that's wrong, and there's no amount of alcohol to excuse it.
    See again proved you don't actually read. Please quote me anywhere did I say decking a girl after sexually assaulting them is a cultural norm. Don't worry I'll wait.

    Given you have shown you aren't actually going of what I said but what you think I meant its little use discussing it further with you.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

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  2. ccwscott is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/28/2012 5:28pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    After what seemed like minutes which was really probably really seconds my homie throws a right cross that really unsettled the girl.

    Actually he hit her so hard that her feet flew off the ground and her torso hit the ground while her legs were still several feet in the air. **** was epic.
    **** was epic.
  3. hungryjoe is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/28/2012 7:19pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gezere View Post
    This is why I say that. It is not a generally departure form standard mores it IS the standard. This is why I said people who haven't been to bacchanal should STFU because you really don't understand the culture.
    Must make bacchanal.
    Dirty shoe slap no problem.
    Standard is OK.

    ....disclaimer....

    Only for better understanding of other cultures. I'm not a dirty old man.
  4. bill_nye68 is online now

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    Posted On:
    6/30/2012 12:11pm


     Style: SEKKJBA, MACP

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by gregaquaman View Post
    Called for phoenix jones. Oh wait he couldnt defend the shoe either.
    God we make fun of him nonstop at JBLM
  5. The Question is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/01/2012 6:12pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ccwscott View Post
    People's bodies belong to themselves. This is true regardless of the culture or expectations of the event. Even if you shake your booty, your booty still belongs to you. So if you grab someone and they didn't want you to, you've done something wrong and in most places in the world illegal. Maybe labeling it sexual assault in that situation is driving a technicality too far, but so is freaking out over being hit with a soft shoe.
    I think you underestimate the impact of that soft shoe, which really wasn't so soft actually. Hopping off the truck and walking calmly towards a ************ before removing a shoe and smacking him in front of 1200 people who are busy having fun is possibly the most embarrassing thing a person can suffer in said circumstances. Not to mention that **** must have hurt.

    And no, people's bodies don't belong to themselves at Carnival. Not at all.
    But you know what's not a technicality? Responding with violent force that could kill or permanently injure someone because they embarrassed you. And if slapping someone is so far outside the norm for this festival, then how far outside the norm is fucking leveling someone like that?
    I agree, **** was uncalled for. No need to punch a ************. Actually, to be honest, levelling her was fucked up, but no one intervened, they all just stood there like "What the **** just happened?". Actually they did that before the punch. After the slipper shot, motherfuckers started looking like "so what the ****, son?".

    Which sounds like it reflects poorly on the people and the culture, but really... ****, it is what it is. Don't slap a ************ you don't know. That's just not clever.
    This is just all starting to sound like classic "we raped her because she wouldn't let us rape her" talk, if she defends herself, then that's why she deserved it, if she doesn't defend herself, then that's why she deserved it, otherwise it's "just the culture" or "no one else has ever complained before" which becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Focusing on trivial aspects of her behavior instead of talking about the obviously way over the line fucked up behavior of your friend. Like gang-raping someone and complaining because their screaming was technically a violation of noise ordinances. Maybe that's true, but if you think that's a relevant point of discussion in that situation you're a dickshit waste of a human being.
    I dunno. Rape is a bit more serious than booty grabbing. Rapists are often beaten to death and chopped into small pieces with cutlassess. For real. Fastest way to get somebody mobbed to death is to accuse them of rape or homosexuality.

    Showing up and carrying on at carnival means you signed on for motherfuckers to approach you without words and immediately start rubbing up on you. That's understood. What's not understood is clubbing a ************ with footwear. Which is why **** went down like it did. Mtoherfuckers often don't know how to react when faced with unfamiliar situations (I say this about the onlookers who didn't intervene, not about homie), which is why homie got away without having to answer to the mob.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goju - joe
    being a dick with skill is only marginally better than being a dick without skill.
  6. The Question is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/01/2012 6:25pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ccwscott View Post

    And consent can be withdrawn during a boxing match. A boxing match is more analogous to a bedroom with your wife. If you're in the bedroom with your wife, and you grab her boob, and she turns around and slaps you, that's odd if she hasn't given any reason for you to think that's not okay. STILL you can't turn around and beat her to the point of risking death. But doing this alone in a bedroom with your wife is a lot different then just declaring it "boob grab festival day" and anyone who doesn't understand or wants to go out and have a good time without being assaulted, well too fucking bad for you, and if you disagree we'll kill you.
    Beat to death? Dude, it was one punch. A very hard punch, thrown with more speed and precision than you would expect from an untrained ************, but still just one punch. Which puts it into the category of "reaction to perceived physical insult" and takes it out of "actions of a vicious criminal".


    One of two things has to be true. Either he crossed over a huge line, or you're full of it when you insist that these cultural norms are 100% ubiquitous, completely understood by *wider* society not just bacchanal regulars, and are clear and well defined. Either that or you have to imagine this chick goes to this event where she knows she's going to be constantly rubbed up against, is getting constantly rubbed up against, and then just picks out one guy for no reason to get angry at and smack with a flip flop. It's possible but it's clearly less likely than the alternative.

    I would wager he crossed over a line, and given that he was expelled, I don't see how it's possible that these cultural norms are as wide and clear as you're saying. And honestly, if you think it's okay to deck someone so hard they lift off the ground because they hit you with a flip flop, I by default assume everything you have to say about this issue is unreliable.
    Ah, as I suspected. It is difficult to transfer cultural nuances over the internet. Which is why I like to think of the bystanders as jury. They did nothing, means they didn't think the ************ was guilty enough to require punishment. Or perhaps they didn't know enough, or perhaps they were all too drunk. No, those last two are unlikely.

    If a person gets sexually assaulted, hits the guy with a flip-flop, and then gets decked so hard they catch air, and that's okay, that's well beyond the threshhold where I care if "it's just their culture" There's no excuse for that. That could have killed her. You don't murder people when you are in no danger. You don't need sensitivity training to know that's wrong, and there's no amount of alcohol to excuse it.
    This is a damn good point. But one could also say you don't hit motherfuckers unless you are ready to fight.


    Really? Let's go down the classic list of excuses that rapists (and other generally douchebaggy people) use and see which ones have been thrown around in this thread

    Using things like the way they were dressing as an excuse.
    Saying "it's just their culture"
    Saying "well they're the first ones to ever have any problem with this"
    Nitpicking over the perhaps not perfect behavior of the victim, while ignoring the grossly over the top behavior of the criminals (that wasn't gang rape, you should have seen what she was wearing, plus she used the n-word, let's argue about how that hurt our feelings for hours and hours instead)
    Severely hurting or killing someone who doesn't want to be groped, and looking for any excuse possible to justify this, which is supported by....
    Declaring that there's an esoteric ridiculously specific set of cultural norms (groping is okay but not over the top groping, whatever that means) everyone is in complete agreement on where this line is and it's inconceivable that anyone would go to this event not knowing or might have a different idea of where this line is, and if there's a disagreement it's clearly the victims fault, and they deserve to be severely hurt or killed as a result.
    Ignoring the idea that maybe someone can go out and dance and have a good time without it implicitly being consent to be sexually touched.
    Sounds like you're carrying some issues and preconceptions. I don't see how rape factors in.
    Carnival = normal. Rape = murdered by mob. Seriously, **** gets out of hand fast. One minute you're looking at a ************ in the bathroom next minute the whole motherfucking campus of university students is hotheaded and trying to kill you in cold blood.
    http://jamaica-star.com/thestar/2006...ews/news1.html



    Orgies face those same problems, and if you're not taking the time to make sure everyone is comfortable with what's going on, if you're not making sure everyone can opt out of anything at any time, if you're not being over the top almost irrationally careful about people's comfort level, if you're coming up with a weird set of guidelines that not everyone knows and murdering people for violating trivial rules, that's not an orgy, it's a gang rape / snuff film.
    Perhaps, but how does murder factor in. Your alarmist tendencies are amusing as a ************.
    We do get it. It would be really hard to run an orgy if you had to ask "can I touch your boob now" every 15 seconds. It's impractical, but the practicality does not change the fact, if you sexually touch someone and they didn't want you to, and you didn't get consent, it's sexual assault. For practical reasons sometimes we take these risks, but don't fool yourself, you are still taking the risk of really hurting or upsetting someone in these circumstances, and if you do that, you've done something wrong, and if they flip out, give them a break.
    Not that it would be difficult to run, but that permission to touch boob A has already been granted by owner because owner A is at the orgy. Attendance implies consent. As you said, consent can be withdrawn, but this is usually done without offending the approacher so brazenly.
    Yeah, she shouldn't have slapped him. You shouldn't assault people when you are in no immediate danger. But if that's true for her, it's doubly true for decking someone as hard as you can when they are in no immediate danger, and your insistence on applying this rule in the one hand, and not in the other, just shouts rapist.
    Again with the rape thing dude? Seriously? Motherfucking rape?
    Quote Originally Posted by Goju - joe
    being a dick with skill is only marginally better than being a dick without skill.
  7. dwkfym is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/01/2012 7:39pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm actually in agreement with ?'s sentiment of "don't hit someone if you don't want to get hit back" thing. Here are a few questions to ponder: if a girl grabs your crotch and you didn't like it at all, would you slap her with your reefs?

    That being said, if some guy groped my wife in my presense I'm chasing his ass down for something less than homocide but more than just a talking to.
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  8. ermghoti is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/01/2012 8:16pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dwkfym View Post
    Here are a few questions to ponder: if a girl grabs your crotch and you didn't like it at all, would you slap her with your reefs?
    How fat is she? We talking Margret Cho... or like circus fat? Details matter.
    Quote Originally Posted by strikistanian View Post
    DROP SEIONAGI ************! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
  9. Gezere is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/02/2012 3:47am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by hungryjoe View Post
    Must make bacchanal.
    Dirty shoe slap no problem.
    Standard is OK.

    ....disclaimer....

    Only for better understanding of other cultures. I'm not a dirty old man.
    I want to be a dirty old man when I grow up. If you decide to go I would be more than happy to come along and show you around. The least that I can do for all you did for me downrange.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Question View Post
    Beat to death? Dude, it was one punch. A very hard punch, thrown with more speed and precision than you would expect from an untrained ************, but still just one punch. Which puts it into the category of "reaction to perceived physical insult" and takes it out of "actions of a vicious criminal".



    Ah, as I suspected. It is difficult to transfer cultural nuances over the internet. Which is why I like to think of the bystanders as jury. They did nothing, means they didn't think the ************ was guilty enough to require punishment. Or perhaps they didn't know enough, or perhaps they were all too drunk. No, those last two are unlikely.


    This is a damn good point. But one could also say you don't hit motherfuckers unless you are ready to fight.



    Sounds like you're carrying some issues and preconceptions. I don't see how rape factors in.
    Carnival = normal. Rape = murdered by mob. Seriously, **** gets out of hand fast. One minute you're looking at a ************ in the bathroom next minute the whole motherfucking campus of university students is hotheaded and trying to kill you in cold blood.
    http://jamaica-star.com/thestar/2006...ews/news1.html




    Perhaps, but how does murder factor in. Your alarmist tendencies are amusing as a ************.

    Not that it would be difficult to run, but that permission to touch boob A has already been granted by owner because owner A is at the orgy. Attendance implies consent. As you said, consent can be withdrawn, but this is usually done without offending the approacher so brazenly.

    Again with the rape thing dude? Seriously? Motherfucking rape?
    That's why I don't see a reason even try to have a discussion with him. He simply doesn't know what he's talking about. Instead of actually trying to understand what goes on he goes to the extreme end with rape and murder which were never a factor.

    Quote Originally Posted by dwkfym View Post
    I'm actually in agreement with ?'s sentiment of "don't hit someone if you don't want to get hit back" thing.
    Pretty much what I've been saying from the start. When you decide to get violent with someone keep in mind they might **** you up.

    Here are a few questions to ponder: if a girl grabs your crotch and you didn't like it at all, would you slap her with your reefs?
    It happens all the time. Again if you don't like the person doing it you tell them and move along. I've had my crotch grabbed and I've had girls back up into me to get things going if you don't like her say so and go on. If you like her dagga dat ****!
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  10. Chongololo

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2012 10:51am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My ex girl was a crazy 3rd dan in TKD and she could hit ver hard and very fast. Going back to questions question, what I'd have done in that situation, and with a crazy ex like mine what I found myself doing in similar situations is grabbing the wrists or going in for a bear hug to restrain the arms, keeping your side to the girl so she can't knee you in the nuts then bring the leg closest to her out and use it to trip her, GENTLY lay her down and then mount and hold her arms or tie her up, or sit/ lay on her, whatever you need to do to make sure she can't move much and doesn't get hurt in the process. Make sure she doesnt headbutt you too. Let her tire herself out or just realise she's made herself look stupid. Or wait til someone at the carni drags you off her and then just run away laughing about it or she's likely gonna piss someone off again.
    It wouldn't have been rape and murder, that's a bit drastic. There's every possibility it could have been sexual assault and manslaughter though. I get that it's a sexual event, but at any time a girl could turn around and say she was unhappy with the way she was treated and it could be taken seriously.
    And what if she'd have smacked her head on the concrete? A friend of mine in the 80's was put away for manslaughter for hitting a big biker who fell over and smacked his head on the pavement. The big guy started it, my friend hit him once and went away. That **** happens.
    And I agree women shouldn't just go around hitting out, no one should for that matter, but if it was my friend punching a woman in the face for anything less than she was about to stab him, home slice would be seriously hurting, don't give a **** how drunk he was he wouldn't be hitting anyone for a while.
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