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  1. Sam Browning is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2012 10:05pm

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The evidence I see from the documents is that two judges in two separate cases decided that Mr. Vunak should be restrained from contact with Mr. Sabharwal and Mr. Garringer because he posed a credible threat of violence to them and/or was stalking them.

    Vunak for whatever reason decided not to show up and defend himself at either hearing. I would love to hear his explaination for why he did not present his side of the story to either court. Note: Vunak was served, he knew about these hearings.

    Vunak has also had a history of deciding to "hire" on various managers. One was a former navy officer with whom he later had a bad split. Question for Vunak: Why do you keep handing over your business affairs to others?

    But I'm having trouble figuring out why Garringer deserved the harrassment that Vunak sent his way when he did not appear to have any control over the website and Vunak's business and says he didn't want to take sides in the Sabharwal / Vunak dispute.
  2. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/10/2012 10:24pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PFSK2 View Post
    As a graduate student in psychology I can tell you armchair quarterbacks that you cannot diagnose someone's mental state or substance use from reading a transcript or watching a video. This comes off as nothing more than character assassination from a completely biased source i.e. Hanniballistic.
    Diagnose? LOL. If you are a graduate student you'd stay away from logical fallacies. No one made a diagnosis in this thread, they stated their opinions of how something appeared.

    You know, EXACTLY like this statement:
    This comes off as nothing more than character assassination from a completely biased source i.e. Hanniballistic.
  3. gwog

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    Posted On:
    7/11/2012 1:22am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The evidence I see from the documents is that two judges in two separate cases decided that Mr. Vunak should be restrained from contact with Mr. Sabharwal and Mr. Garringer because he posed a credible threat of violence to them and/or was stalking them.
    Was there any doubt in anybody's mind? Seriously, he was talking about pulling out eyeballs (we all know he does that every day but context is everything). I'd take that as a credible threat if it came from Justin Bieber. I pressed assault and terroristic threat charges against a woman for far less-- she only threatened to rape me with a baseball bat before beating me to death with it.

    Personally, if Mr. Vunak gave me much more than a dirty look I might very well pack my bags and move to Uzbekistan. Paul Vunak is pretty terrifying when he's in a good mood and I mean that in the nicest possible way-- he fulfills a very important function and does it well.

    I do not doubt that he said what is claimed. My question is why exactly he was so fucking mad. I am just not buying this narrative that all of this (rather extreme) misbehavior on his part came completely out of the blue.

    Butter wouldn't melt in long-suffering Mr. Singh's mouth, is that right? They ended up with the business, the name, the website, the money, there were strange accounting questions, and Vunak is totally in the wrong?
    Last edited by gwog; 7/11/2012 1:25am at .
  4. gwog

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    Posted On:
    7/11/2012 1:40am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As a graduate student in psychology I can tell you armchair quarterbacks that you cannot diagnose someone's mental state or substance use from reading a transcript or watching a video. This comes off as nothing more than character assassination from a completely biased source i.e. Hanniballistic.
    It looks like PFSK2's post is no longer on the board, whether he or someone else deleted it I don't know. Strangely enough, it looks like PFSK2 may live very close by to me.

    I will say this: Mr. Vunak does not look well AT ALL.

    He looks emaciated, stressed and sick. He has a hunted look in his eyes.

    What his people should be doing in this situation is rallying around him and doing whatever they can to help him. I question people who say they're someone's students and friends and care about someone and then abandon the guy when the going gets tough and start doing whatever they can to drag his name through the mud.

    That isn't right. Unless you're out and out his enemy, the least you can do for someone you call a friend is let it be.

    Hannibalistic: You referred to his behavior as paranoid. Remember that it's not paranoia if people really are out to get you.

    They wound up with all the financial control and Vunak is paranoid for being enraged about it?

    That's not saying that you can't still be paranoid at the same time but it sure doesn't help when you have no control over the website that's being used to hawk your life work.

    You have to excuse me because I'm really not involved with his camp but this just seems extremely fishy to me.

    Lot of things going around here that are right on the edge of defamatory. Not crossing the line but getting pretty close.
    Last edited by gwog; 7/11/2012 1:48am at .
  5. cualltaigh is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/11/2012 1:51am


     Style: BJJ, MMA, JJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by gwog View Post
    I do not doubt that he said what is claimed. My question is why exactly he was so fucking mad. I am just not buying this narrative that all of this (rather extreme) misbehavior on his part came completely out of the blue.
    Yet you're happy to assume that underlying reasons for the 'misbehaviour' are completely external? In the face of a history/pattern of erratic and unstable behaviour and with no supporting evidence/reason of your own?






    "Sacred cows make the best hamburgers".
    Dum spiro, spero.
    Tada gan iarracht.
  6. gwog

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    Posted On:
    7/11/2012 2:00am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yet you're happy to assume that underlying reasons for the 'misbehaviour' are completely external? In the face of a history/pattern of erratic and unstable behaviour and with no supporting evidence/reason of your own?
    Oh no, I find his behavior extremely peculiar and disturbing, and you're right that there is a long-standing pattern from what I understand and from things Mr. Vunak has said about himself.

    I also find it very peculiar and disturbing that other people ended up with control over all of his websites as well as apparently financial arrangements, bank accounts and accountants.

    Then these people are calling him paranoid.

    If you want supporting evidence, that's what I'm looking at and thinking it's very strange indeed.

    That and the fact that a number of long-standing friends and students have apparently factionalized against him and are talking about all the Great Things in the Wings for the organization.

    Isn't that a wee bit odd?
  7. Sam Browning is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/11/2012 2:23am

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by gwog View Post
    Butter wouldn't melt in long-suffering Mr. Singh's mouth, is that right? They ended up with the business, the name, the website, the money, there were strange accounting questions, and Vunak is totally in the wrong?
    Since I have never met Harinder, I have no idea about the characteristics of his mouth, and your assumption that the majority of posters here are ascribing noble motivations to him is erronous. But regardless of this applicant's faults, a court has decided that Vunak was engaging in threatening behavior. Of course Vunak could have simply hired a lawyer and filed suit, but it appears he decided to use another tactic.

    Please don't forget Mr. Garringer. He did not apparently retain anything that could be described as Mr. Vunak's business assets and yet Paul decided to threaten him too, because it appears he wouldn't break relations with Harinder. I don't know how you rationalize that one.

    Finally you are forgetting the Porsha. Mr. Vunak retained that particular asset.
    Last edited by Sam Browning; 7/11/2012 2:51am at .
  8. Sam Browning is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/11/2012 2:47am

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by gwog View Post
    What his people should be doing in this situation is rallying around him and doing whatever they can to help him. I question people who say they're someone's students and friends and care about someone and then abandon the guy when the going gets tough and start doing whatever they can to drag his name through the mud.

    That's not saying that you can't still be paranoid at the same time but it sure doesn't help when you have no control over the website that's being used to hawk your life work.

    You have to excuse me because I'm really not involved with his camp but this just seems extremely fishy to me.

    Lot of things going around here that are right on the edge of defamatory. Not crossing the line but getting pretty close.
    1) A student's obligations to "rally" around his teacher, ends when that teacher threatens him with serious bodily injury". Otherwise the student is participating in a cult.

    2) Actually Harinder is unable to sell Vunak's life work. TRS is selling his RAT series from the 1990s, and his ex partner, the ex Naval officer is selling some of his earlier tapes. So as well intentioned as your statement may be, it is factually inaccurate.

    3) Its fine if Paul's friends and students come here to defend him, but you lose credibility when you deny your obvious connection to him.

    4) "Lots of things are on the edge of defamatory". Well you'll have to ask Vunak to give you a POA form so you can be his legal representative. Seriously, Vunak made a number of mistakes which damaged his own reputation. Instead of showing up at his restraining order hearings to deny the assertions, he blew both hearings off, and now its a court finding that he engaged in stalking and threating behavior towards the applicants. Previously I sent Tom Cruse an email asking him to convey Vunak's side of the story. For whatever reason Vunak's second in command ignored this polite request. Given these facts, Vunak dug himself his own hole, so please do not tell us about other people damaging his reputation, he damages it, very well by himself.
  9. gwog

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    Posted On:
    7/11/2012 2:55am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    But regardless of this applicant's faults, a court has decided that Vunak was engaging in threatening behavior.
    That's a matter of public record. Again, my question is why he was behaving this way.

    I'm not here to slam anyone or drag anyone's name through the mud. If you read the voicemail transcripts Vunak looks like a total lunatic.

    But again, my opinion is based on the following:

    1) Somehow, these people ended up with the company name, the website, the contact information and other business infrastructure. This didn't happen overnight. It didn't happen by accident.

    2) These people were his students and they called themselves his friends. If they think Mr. Vunak is not well, they should be helping him, not slamming him in public.

    I would certainly not be happy at all if someone threatened me that way. But it never happens because I live my life in such a way as to make it unnecessary. There are a lot of people out there who don't like me but I think they would mostly agree that the reason why they don't like me is because I'm brutally honest. [I am also kind of a dick about it but that's beside the point here]

    When I say I'm somebody's friend, or when a teacher accepts me as a student, my loyalty to that person doesn't end when things go south.

    I've been involved in a financial dispute with a teacher over a sum that to me was not entirely trivial. It amounted to around a grand. What did I do about it? I bit the bullet. After a little bit of a surprised outburst on my part, I owned it as my mistake and said nothing about it ever again. Amortized out over many years it was a small price to pay for the training I received.

    The stakes are obviously higher with higher amounts of money but then again you get back to the question of why these people were in control of the infrastructure, the only ones communicating with the accountants, et cetera et cetera. Given that all that is the case I find it very difficult to buy Vunak as the instigator of the problem.

    He certainly isn't Mister Diplomacy.

    3) Its fine if Paul's friends and students come here to defend him, but you lose credibility when you deny your obvious connection to him.
    I give you my word that I am not connected in any way to Paul Vunak except that he's two upstream from me and that was a long time back. I have never spoken to, corresponded with or met the man.

    I just find this situation very strange and I feel compelled to say something about it.

    Why am I sticking up for him? I looked at that video and in that video I saw a guy who is not looking good. That dude is hurting and he needs help, not a bunch of people kicking him when he's down.
    Last edited by gwog; 7/11/2012 3:02am at .
  10. gwog

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    Posted On:
    7/11/2012 3:06am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Another thing is that I am seeing a bunch of guys who not long ago at all were nuthugging Vunak like there was no tomorrow, and now that he's down they've turned on him and are slamming him.

    That makes me kind of sick to my stomach. I've seen this happen so many times and it's really one of the ugliest facets of human nature. For some reason it's very common in the RBSD community.

    If you would like me to leave I will leave, and it sounds like that's what you're saying. I think I've said my piece. You do a good job of being evenhanded and fair. I like the title of the other thread-- the guy is only human.
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