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  1. #111
    armchairwarrior
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    Hello there. None of you know me, but I stumbled upon this thread and since I can't get to sleep, thought I'd post a few comments. First off, I had the honor of meeting Paul Vunak when he came to a JKD school I was training at on Long Island around 1991/2. I want to comment on the use of the word fighter. Of course, one can be a professional fighter-actually getting paid to fight, or an amateur fighter with aspirations of turning pro. But I also think at a certain point, guys who train in martial arts and spar seriously, should be considered fighters as well. They get into the ring, or on the mat, and put themselves at risk, even if they never have intentions of becoming a pro fighter. They can also seriously mess people up if they wanted to. When I was training at that gym, and sparring with some professional fighters as well as regular guys from the neighborhood, that sure felt like fighting to me. The adrenaline was there, the emotions-from the pre-fight butterflies to the post-fight rush, is all real. Guys would get knocked out occasionally, eat a few elbows, get kicked in the groin accidentally. That's what fighting is.

    Vunak, with the amount of full-contact sparring he's done in multiple martial arts over many years, is a fighter, in every sense of the word. I hope he gets his life back on track.

    On another note, I remember Paul talking about BJJ and his relationship with the Gracies. He was extremely excited to be training BJJ, and IIRC was on his way to visit a JuJitsu school in Manhattan the next day, which had classes run by one of the Gracies (don't remember which).I also vaguely remember someone from the gym saying he saw Vunak in the Gracie entourage at UFC I.

  2. #112
    bobyclumsyninja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by armchairwarrior View Post
    But I also think at a certain point, guys who train in martial arts and spar seriously, should be considered fighters as well.
    They get into the ring, or on the mat, and put themselves at risk, even if they never have intentions of becoming a pro fighter.
    Lots of people who aren't fighters do this. It's called resistant non compliant sparring. It carries risks with it, and isn't completely safe. That doesn't make everyone who spars hard in the gym a fighter, at least, not to my tiny mind.

    I've sparred pro/ammy fighters or ex-fighters (including one guy who went on to fight in the UFC). I also had one sanctioned ammy fight. That doesn't make me a fighter. I reserve that title for guys/gals who take fights, and live the life. Doing a one off, or sparring people who do put it properly on the line doesn't count. There are many great coaches/trainers who weren't fighters. It's not a put down. Let's keep the title, though, for people who actually do the damn thing.
    When I was training at that gym, and sparring with some professional fighters as well as regular guys from the neighborhood, that sure felt like fighting to me. The adrenaline was there, the emotions-from the pre-fight butterflies to the post-fight rush, is all real. Guys would get knocked out occasionally, eat a few elbows, get kicked in the groin accidentally. That's what fighting is.
    That's what sparring is. It can feel like fighting, b/c hard sparring does feel like fighting, but it isn't, unless people lose the plot, and start banging out, (but that's mostly just fucking up sparring, not fighting IMO).
    Vunak, with the amount of full-contact sparring he's done in multiple martial arts over many years, is a fighter, in every sense of the word.
    Except for the competing as a fighter sense.

    Someone could well be able to throw down, but being able to fight, and literally being a fighter are different things IMO. With as much availability as there is currently for people to take fights in ammy or pro promotions (or even non-sanctioned smokers), not having done it, precludes one IMO from the label fighter.

    Perhaps I'm shitting on people dreams here, but the vids I saw of Vunak were retarded. "If he's got a stick, and I've got a stick, I'm not going to take it to the ground. I toss it away, and go to the bite" (approximate quote from terrible memory)
    LOL what the ****?

    Possibly psychotic adults, and revved teenagers like that stuff, but well adjusted adults?

  3. #113
    pokerface
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    What style of Martial Arts does Paul Vanuk really represent? Is this totally his own style or based on some other more traditional fighting form?

  4. #114
    Tonuzaba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pokerface View Post
    What style of Martial Arts does Paul Vanuk really represent? Is this totally his own style or based on some other more traditional fighting form?
    It's VUNAK not VANUK and I'm sure there some kind of FAQ on him over at wikipedia or somewhere else.

    This thread is actually for people who know at least who Paul Vunak is/was.

    Anyway, welcome to Bullshido, pokerface.

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  5. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja View Post
    Perhaps I'm shitting on people dreams here, but the vids I saw of Vunak were retarded. "If he's got a stick, and I've got a stick, I'm not going to take it to the ground. I toss it away, and go to the bite" (approximate quote from terrible memory)
    LOL what the ****?

    Possibly psychotic adults, and revved teenagers like that stuff, but well adjusted adults?
    I looked up a few of his his videos (which i watched years ago) because of this and the other thread and he definitely has tourette's - any scenario and he tics "headbutt" before moving onto the other techniques.

    He was playing the drums while his guys sparred in at least two vids though Bobby, I thought you'd have loved that.

  6. #116
    crappler's Avatar
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    Thought he was a JKD dude.
    "We often joke -- and we really wish it were a joke -- that you will only encounter two basic problems with your 'self-defense' training.
    1) That it doesn't work
    2) That it does work"
    -Animal MacYoung

  7. #117
    Permalost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by captainbirdseye View Post
    He was playing the drums while his guys sparred in at least two vids though Bobby, I thought you'd have loved that.
    That's probably from his FMA training. We do that in my group sometimes.

  8. #118
    DerAuslander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja View Post
    Lots of people who aren't fighters do this. It's called resistant non compliant sparring. It carries risks with it, and isn't completely safe. That doesn't make everyone who spars hard in the gym a fighter, at least, not to my tiny mind.

    I've sparred pro/ammy fighters or ex-fighters (including one guy who went on to fight in the UFC). I also had one sanctioned ammy fight. That doesn't make me a fighter. I reserve that title for guys/gals who take fights, and live the life. Doing a one off, or sparring people who do put it properly on the line doesn't count. There are many great coaches/trainers who weren't fighters. It's not a put down. Let's keep the title, though, for people who actually do the damn thing.
    That's what sparring is. It can feel like fighting, b/c hard sparring does feel like fighting, but it isn't, unless people lose the plot, and start banging out, (but that's mostly just fucking up sparring, not fighting IMO).
    Except for the competing as a fighter sense.
    Just shut up and get off this fighter nonsense. It's a fucking red herring that has absolutely nothing to do with the subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja View Post
    Perhaps I'm shitting on people dreams here, but the vids I saw of Vunak were retarded. "If he's got a stick, and I've got a stick, I'm not going to take it to the ground. I toss it away, and go to the bite" (approximate quote from terrible memory)
    LOL what the ****?

    Possibly psychotic adults, and revved teenagers like that stuff, but well adjusted adults?

    You don't do much stickfighting, do you? Or actually have any idea of the situations Vunak might be addressing, do you?

  9. #119
    By the Hoary Hand of Hoggoth.....
    Hanniballistic's Avatar
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    If a weapon is involved we are already well and truly past "handbags at ten paces" and into "lethal force" territory on a UoF continuum, so biting is a reasonable option in the circumstances

  10. #120
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    Now, I find some of his stuff weird, but you really need to listen to his interviews and video talks boby.

    He is probably one of the few people who uses biting in the true sense. I lol'ed the first time bodhi brought it up, then read and watched videos to see it isn't teh deadly.

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