Ninjutsu

[BJMills]

BudoCanuk, if you stick around this site, and I hope you do, you'll start to see a trend where every couple of weeks someone from the booj, or Wing Chun, or something else not highly regarded in competative combat circles, comes around with one or more of the following arguments...

1. The art is effective, on the street.
2. We don't spar because our style is too deadly. Or...
3. We don't compete because the moves that make our style effective are too deadly.
4. Competiton and/or sparring doesn't train you for REAL COMBAT (implying said art does)
5. This art is BATTLEFIELD TESTED. (My personal favorite).
6... etc, etc...

What is debated, and what this site values, is evidence. If said style is effective and the angry practiction defending it chooses, he or she can show up to a throwdown and prove it.

Or provide some video of it being used effectively in a live enviroment. For most of us that is sparring and/or competiton but if anyone feels the need to push the battlefield tested thing there are plenty of locations in the Middle East and North Africa that could accomidate that. I highly reccomend not taking this particular approach but if you do then by all means bring a video camera.

Point being there are plenty of sites you can go to where you can post about how great your martial art is (I mean 'you' in the general sense not you in particular) and it is literally against the rules to call bullshit. The problem with that- evidenced by videos in the other thread people have already linked- is that there is a lot of genuinely silly bullshit that simply will not work against a resisting opponent that is being passed of as legitimate martial arts.

It's all fun and games to speculate about technique- especially for Wing Chun types, they love to speculate about the geometry and physics of their superior technique- but eveything changes immensely when facing a live, resisting opponent.

You mentioned randori, if you can show us a video of effective ninjutsu randori it would change a lot of minds...

But you're not going to find anyone holding their breath waiting of that particular video...

But if you do post it, and it also has hot ring girls, even better.

[Styygens]

I take it that "this guy" is referring to me?

In a word? Yes.

Oh, and use the search function.:tongue:

[It is Fake]

Ok, I'm not prepared to argue with you.

Let's play semantics. You are not going to continue this argument. We've already been arguing.


Look, your question was not answered the way you wanted. The reason this occurred is due to your OP. Everything in it speaks to you not getting that the booj, on this website, has nothing to offer without crosstraining.

In that thread I provided you, there are the names of 4-5 teachers that a few guys say can effectively teach ninjitsu or the booj. This is in the ENTIRE world by one poster's claim. He also posted proof of training and I for one believe his statement. That's why I directed you to that thread.

[BudoCanuck]

In a word? Yes.

Oh, and use the search function.:tongue:

Ok, lets kill this thread and get down to real business elsewhere on the forum.

[dougguod]

I think the OP is referring to the fact that some of the Ryu claimed by Hatsumi are more associated with Samurai. But that does not make Hatsumi any more of a samurai than he is a ninja.

That's what I figured it would be. Secret Samurai Scrolls on the shelf alongside his Secret Ninja Scrolls.

[Styygens]

That's what I figured it would be. Secret Samurai Scrolls on the shelf alongside his Secret Ninja Scrolls.

Oh, they're not so secret. In fact, they seem to be more generally regarded as legit. But they aren't without their controversy.

The problem is that these Bujinkan Ryu are often presented internally as being unique. For instance, Kukishinden Ryu is often presented with a legend that Takamatsu single-handedly preserved the ryu from oblivion. In fact, there are several other lines of Kukishin Ryu that still exist.

There's another extant line for Koto Ryu. And the Booj's Takagi Yoshin Ryu is closely related to several other (but not all) schools with "Yoshin" in the name.

This gets Boojies in trouble on the Internet, especially when they try to correct wikis and run into serious and legitimate students from another lineage. I've also heard rumors and apocryphal anecdotes of Boojies who discover these connections and then go in search of one of the related Koryu only to be rudely turned away because the other line has no desire to be caught up in the lineage silliness of the Bujinkan.

But that's about the extent of my knowledge on this subject. The Takamatsuden Spaghetti is too mushy for me to unravel. Maybe somebody else can shed light on one or more of these strands.

[dougguod]

The Takamatsuden Spaghetti is too mushy for me to unravel. Maybe somebody else can shed light on one or more of these strands.

That's more where I was going. Some of the ryu are certainly real. It's Hatsumi's connections to them that are questionable.

[ranger joe]

I have no intention of quitting Aikido after 30 years, I do however want to further diversify my combat skills. Having practised Iaido almost as long as Aikido, I'm interested in the weapons training. As Hatsumi is technically a Samurai as well as a "Ninja", I figured not all of it can be pseudo mystical BS.[/QUOTE]


Ok, I have limited knowledge and training in most of the arts you mentioned except Systema (how did everyone miss that?) and Aikido. I dabbled in both was drawn into them to a degree for a short time and had my bubble burst as to how combat effective they are to the masses. I say masses (as in mass of people) because most people can't pull the moves off in a live enviornment. Can some people? Sure I bet they can. So this forum/site is full of people it seems, myself included that say "prove it" or "show me". It seems that the Ninjers, and Systema people as well as Akido(ites?) and Chunner's as a general rule can't make their art work against similarly trained BJJ/Wrestling/Muy Thia/judo practicioners. When that happens the light bulb goes on and they leave those arts and pick up effective one, or they come up with the excuses given about being to deadly or whatever and stick there head in the sand ignoring the glaring problem. The other option would be to pick up and cross train in the combat arts and intigrate (which I think is what your looking to do) it to make an effective combatant. If your looking for an effective combat art, I suggest politely to add judo/bjj/or Muy Thia and learn to work your Akido in with it. Might make you a better fighter all around. Anyway just my opinion for what its worth. Best of luck to you....and what's a squadi? or whatever it is you called yourself? Is that a Canadian military term?

[CrackFox]

I practice Yoshinkan, and I was a "hand to hand combat" instructor in the British Army (mostly basic Aikido, Systema and Krav Maga), but I have never officially taught Aikido in a club Dojo setting.

I too would be interested in your experiences teaching Systema in the British army. I think that could make for very interesting reading.

[Styygens]

I too would be interested in your experiences teaching Systema in the British army. I think that could make for very interesting reading.

Seconded. I want to hear more about teaching Aikido, Systema, and Krav Maga to the British military.