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  1. BJMills is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/02/2012 10:53pm


     Style: Muay Thai/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Styygens View Post


    I am disappoint.
    So very, very dissapoint.

    On the other hand there would be a kind of collective 'been there done that, and ever so recently,' that I see Fake's point.
  2. Plasma is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/02/2012 10:55pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: 柔術

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gigatron View Post
    I don't know where you'd find one, that's why I said "If".

    What makes my group different? Well first and foremost no one involved does this as a hobby, every member is either former/active military, law enforcement or in my case law enforcement/MMA.

    So #1: is motive. ( staying alive and not getting taken out by multiple adversaries/random BJJ trash )

    #2: Physical fitness is mandatory. I'm not talking about these weekend warriors who think they're in shape because they go to the gym twice and eat one dingdong instead of two. Majority of us have a strict 5 day lifting regimen, 3-4 days running regimen and training is about 4 days a week also.

    Once again this is not some random set of "dojo rules" we're a core group of people, and this is just the fitness standard we've agreed on after seeing our fellow officers get torn apart and seeing friends go down in the cage because they thought they knew what they were doing.

    #3: I'm not going to list how this is done because I don't need some random Booj lurkers trying to emulate me and pretend like they actually hold a candle, but techniques are broken down and sorted in specific ways, entire Ryu-ha are learned and studied but training specific and functional techniques are key. The problem with most of the other groups is that it's a random theme or move every night and no one learns or develops skill in any one technique. So you have 20 something people doing half assed versions of 30 moves they never really learned correctly. [ See a problem there? ]

    Also somethings don't translate to certain situations. I can't use happaken or shakoken in a match, but I can certainly use happaken in transition to a clinch in a realistic situation. Same with shakoken, last time I checked IL had an issue with clawing through flesh in the cage.

    I am starting to ramble here so I'll try to sum this up.

    The majority of people in the Bujinkan are out of shape, have no real combat experience [ of their own choosing! because they're scared and want to dress up and be feudal figments of the past ], don't train their techniques properly or long enough, and never test them against resisting opponents. Once again I completely understand not every technique can be used full force without injury but guess what? A lot of them can and do work.

    We do the opposite of the above issues.

    As for video taping sparring? Electronic equipment isn't allowed in the main building we train at due to security regulations but in the future we'd like to expand to some different training areas or do some filming in outdoor terrain. I suppose if you're super curious and ever in the Chi, you could hit me up and we can roll together. I don't hate other Bujinkan practioners, I'm just really sick and tired of people pretending to be something they aren't. [ Donk, Hayes, 75% of the Gaijin Shihan ] I would take a fight with any of those fruit loops on any day of any year.

    P.S Oh and how could I forget the likes of the ass-juice run off collective of Antony Cummins and Christa Jacobson. Throw these imbeciles up into that list also.

    P.P.S It may seem like I am extremely negative but that's really not the essence of what I am trying to get across, text is hard to translate how someone really feels about a specific situation so just a heads up, I don't think I'm some demon resurrecting the ways of the past... I'm just annoyed with how things were done and decided to change that.

    There's a training event from 1987 on Youtube where Doron and Hatsumi tell the group there ( around the 17 minute mark ) that they need to start actually training and utilizing the strikes the way they are meant to be, my feelings are very similar.

    It's a shame barely anyone listened.
    The real question is Do you wear tabi? Does that add to the experience of being a hardcore Ninja?
  3. Gigatron is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/03/2012 3:01am


     Style: Ninjutsu

    -2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh Plasma. I do indeed own tabi, but most times training is in a variety of footwear. [ sneakers, utility/combat boots, or barefoot ]. And no, unfortunately footwear type does not enhance the epicness of training.

    Back to the other questions on a less comedic note: I'm 2-0 professionally. I've fought in Combat-Do and XFO events in Chicago. I took last year off because my job wouldn't let me hold two professions during the first year. Yes other people in the training circle have fought here also. The other being 2-1 professionally. [ There are only two MMA people in the group, myself and another ]. Yes we cross-train, but only specific techniques.

    Example: The sprawl, there is no Bujinkan variant of takedown stuffing as effective as the sprawl. Yeah you can knee or elbow, but IL has iffy rules about knees and elbows to the face when someone's knee is down [ in a shoot, single leg, etc ].

    As for you judging my training, unless you plan to compete in either of the above organizations or want to hold a Chicago Throwdown spar, I couldn't care less how you view my setup, no offense. I just don't lol. Unlike a good majority of people on here, they've never fought at a professional level where we have actually gone into the cage on multiple occasions to shut these BJJ yoohoos down hard.

    So you're probably wondering why I brought up what I did? Only to tell the person who started the post that good groups do exist, they are just rare and the majority of the Booj is trash. But I've seen more worthless wannabe MMA fighters than worthless ninjer larpers. I suppose they all have their place in keeping skill concealed or at the very least entertainment.

    As for being a training group and not a dojo, our coaches deeply frown upon this art and it's sad. One of the most disappointing things was hearing my coach tell me the **** was useless because he was not familiar [ like most people ] of how it can be used effectively when people actually train right. With that being said, that training is kept separate from MMA.

    If you think you can lay down and arm bar two/three people trying to kill you I must say you are incorrect, MMA does not solve all the conflicts that may arise in my life/profession.

    But.... if I'm on duty and some banger has me pinned down. [ btw Chicago has the highest murder capitol in the U.S now ] I can easily roll staying low and compact [ zenpo kaiten ] to the back of my squad car to get my AR-15 staying compact [ fudoza ] and return fire. If I'm empty and someone sneaks up behind me with a blade I can use the AR in the same way you would utilize your sword or hanbo to block the inside of the arm, eject the magazine tactically and jam the corner of it into their eye socket or throat. [ basically jodan uke sword/tanto combination with your rifle and magazine ejected ]. The art translates very well in deadly scenarios outside of the cage. The only people who can visualize what I'm describing are probably Plasma and Styygens due to having knowledge of the art. There are countless other examples: the essence of chi no kata handwork/footwork could be used to quickly switch between rifle and sidearm and or use the sidearm as a blunt object when empty. I'm rambling again, but I've got time to kill so.. I hope that answered some of the questions.
  4. Gigatron is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/03/2012 3:06am


     Style: Ninjutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Plasma View Post
    The real question is Do you wear tabi? Does that add to the experience of being a hardcore Ninja?
    In fact, one of the only reasons I made a user name and decided to stop lurking Plasma was reading some of your posts from the past, I really felt your pain in trying to defend what could be a fantastic skill set from the hordes of posers and imbeciles who have hidden under the art's mantle. With that being said, I felt the need to vent and or converse with you on what made you switch to the styles you practice now. Anyone who has access to the denshos and has competed in some form of sport art or even military based combat can see some useful techniques within. I don't care who wants to argue that point, I will -never- agree that the art is useless. Just useless people doing it wrong.
  5. ashkelon is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/03/2012 3:12am


     Style: Striking, grappling

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gigatron View Post
    The only people who can visualize what I'm describing are probably Plasma and Styygens due to having knowledge of the art.
    No.

    Also, proof of you being deadly ninja fighter special forces super hero please.
  6. Gigatron is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/03/2012 3:24am


     Style: Ninjutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When did I say I was special forces? Oh I get it, sarcasm.

    No I'm an officer in Chicago for the Sheriff's Office and I do MMA on the side.

    You must not have read the part about me not caring about you and only posting to voice my comment that effective practitioners of the art exist.

    Sorry but there's something called General Orders that forbid me to post dress up photos of me in uniform and or my Star number.

    But I'll upload some of my matches to Youtube when I get home. I took them down because people were hotlinking the videos and collecting add revenue which I never saw.

    Btw: I'd love to see some of your matches if you have any. : )

    Also: You said "no" am I to assume you have experience with the techniques I was describing? If so please inform me how they do not apply to modern weaponry.
    Last edited by Gigatron; 9/03/2012 3:31am at .
  7. ashkelon is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/03/2012 3:30am


     Style: Striking, grappling

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gigatron View Post
    You must not have read the part about me not caring about you and only posting to voice my comment that effective practitioners of the art exist.
    You should know that making claims without proof here is an offense of forum rules, it's not about you caring, though that is up to the mods.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigatron
    But I'll upload some of my matches to Youtube when I get home. I took them down because people were hotlinking the videos and collecting add revenue which I never saw.
    Cool, I'm looking forward to you demonstrating BBT techniques in those, that's not sarcasm btw. Also FYI a lot of forum members are ex-booj, many probably with more experience than you.
  8. Gigatron is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/03/2012 3:39am


     Style: Ninjutsu

    -1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ashkelon View Post
    You should know that making claims without proof here is an offense of forum rules, it's not about you caring, though that is up to the mods.



    Cool, I'm looking forward to you demonstrating BBT techniques in those, that's not sarcasm btw. Also FYI a lot of forum members are ex-booj, many probably with more experience than you.
    I wouldn't doubt they are more experienced in terms of time in the Bujinkan. I'm 26, and joined when I was 17. But I know where I stand when it comes to combat.

    As for utilizing BBT in the cage, I just said and said prior in my original post it does not translate well there and I don't utilize what would be noticeable kamae when fighting in the sport scenarios, but the angling, principals and kyusho digs are there ; ).

    Both of my fights were TKO due to doctor stoppage, a prime point in fighting is not reaching for a technique when a simpler one is available. I'm not going to plot out Oni Kudaki on you if I can use principals of a proper thrown Tsuki [ 500+ respect points if you actually know what those principals are and how they relate to strikes and even take down attempts ] to land a cross on your jaw and knock you out.

    So if you're expecting Ganseki in the octagon in the videos, you won't see it. But I stated that in the original post, maybe you don't read so well.

    EDIT: I forgot I still had one on my Youtube channel where I review Transformer figures ; ).



    Tell me exactly where I would have needed to use a kamae in a situation like this where he just tries to tackle me and keeps grabbing for my arm [ like all pathetic BJJ/MMA noobs do ] to pull me down and get a rear naked and or get behind me? In this situation I do what I feel is required for the targets he presents me with I.E his face, kidneys and floating rib all sexy kyusho points btw.

    EDITx2 Something our group is working on primarily is selecting techniques that would work in MMA and perhaps showcase this in upcoming matches since it's never really been done before but that takes time because there's very few people in the Bujinkan who want to train at an athletic level or actually get hit.
    Last edited by Gigatron; 9/03/2012 4:00am at .
  9. ashkelon is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/03/2012 4:05am


     Style: Striking, grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    then it is irrelevant, no footwork, technique or principle to be seen that is commonly practiced in BBT.
  10. Gigatron is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/03/2012 4:11am


     Style: Ninjutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ashkelon View Post
    then it is irrelevant, no footwork, technique or principle to be seen that is commonly practiced in BBT.
    No principals? Really now? You don't kneel on the hips and spine to control in BBT while striking? [ sanshin three points of contact principal ]

    You don't uppercut with the body weight moving forward? [ chi no kata ]

    You don't strike vital spots? [ kyushos ]

    I'm right handed, I fight southpaw because my strong side kamae utilizes motions starting with my right hand back and ending with my right hand forward, so I'm comfortable in that position to jab and hook.

    Maybe you need help understanding what the word principal means, or as I said earlier, reading my first post where I said BBT does NOT translate well in the cage and it's something we're working on discovering if it can be.

    Sorry to make you salty, I'm not Ashida Kim.

    I can actually back up my points, play in the cage and don't LARP.

    But it's cool bro, work on that Sambo, and let me know how that works for ya, I'll keep doing what I'm doing.

    Not trying to be a cocky ass, just sick of getting into debates with people who A: don't even fight so their opinion isn't important to me unless they are well educated in the arts.

    or B: Can't read and or hop on Booj bashing band wagons without good reason. Yeah, a lot of them suck, not everybody though.

    P.S your only saving grace in that statement is the word commonly. Nothing is commonly practiced in the organization because it's falling apart and filled with useless Megadans and Shihans who think their silly blackbelts protect them against bone and muscle impacting their bodies.

    P.P.S Hoko no Kamae is easily hidden in a common MMA stance and used to clinch people. ; ) Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there in essence, that's the whole damn point of the art that these yoohoos don't seem to understand.
    Last edited by Gigatron; 9/03/2012 4:22am at .
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