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  1. stillkicking is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/18/2004 10:51am


     Style: Korean Capoiera

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    ITF Vs. WTF TKD (Taekwondo - Taekwon-do)

    Let me begin by saying, "I know."

    I know no one but a TKD guy will care about this thread.

    I know. So, if you're not into you can go away now.

    Heh heh.

    I was just at a TKD tournament where I saw a couple of national level ITF guys mix it up with a WTF olympic hopeful (whose name I will release pending his acceptence onto the Canadian team).

    Now...I used to dis ITF sparring when compared with WTF. Mainly because as an ITF kinda guy, I had trouble with WTF rules/fighters.

    That said, when the shoe is on the other foot, the WTF guy was all but helpless in the ring against his ITF counterparts.

    It seems the WTF techniques were stopped easily by checking-kicks.

    I'd like to hear what TKD guys have to say about this. Same with Osiris and MaverikZ.

    BTW, anyone know where I can dig up any "official" Karate sparring rules? I want to go to a few more open competitions hosted by Karate schools.
    Cheers!
    SK
  2. stillkicking is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/18/2004 11:10am


     Style: Korean Capoiera

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Good point.

    Yeah, ITF has the sine wave. Good point about standarization. There are solid WTF orthodixies that work. I think that sense of the orthodox might have caused my WTF buddy to be thrown off his game. Suddenly he was fighting a guy who does a side-kick off the frong leg. The WTF guy could just NOT get in. And this guy has FLEXIBLITY like crazy. Still, the front leg checking kick stopped him everytime.

    SK
    Last edited by stillkicking; 4/18/2004 11:13am at .
  3. MaverickZ is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/18/2004 11:25am

    supporting member
     Style: white boy jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Osiris is right. The ITF doesn't really do quality control so a lot of times its luck of the draw with those schools. The WTF I think does a bit better since they have a template of what good WTF TKD should look like. And because of the lots and lots of competitions the WTF holds you get a bit of a weed out effect I would think. The ITF is a bit spotty with tournaments in the US, the Europe it seems pretty standard but I could be wrong.

    just last night i sparred a WTF guy with aims at the olympics, used to be a virginia state champion four years in a row (he liked to tell this to everyone in teh room). anyway, we went at it olympic rules and he had kicks i had trouble stopping. he nailed me with a few real good roundhouses. but he suffered from the usual symptoms (hands down, no close in game, etc). what i did notice was a serious lack of straight line kicks. front kicks and side kicks worked real well against him, had he not been wearing that body armor he would have felt some pain (i hate those damn things). anyway, it was really funny when he'd do a couple of round kicks and i would just step in for a punch combo, he just kinda stood ther in front of me with his hands down looking at me.

    (sorry gotta run i'll try to add something more useful and coherent later)
  4. stillkicking is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/18/2004 11:28am


     Style: Korean Capoiera

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, sound like linear attacks are foreign to WTF guys. The rules are partially to blame. As I recall, a kick of the front leg in WTF is not given ful points, hence, more circular kicks from the back leg.

    SK.
  5. MaverickZ is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/18/2004 2:11pm

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     Style: white boy jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    is there anything more specific you wanted to know?

    in general, avoid schools who are official members of either federation. Unless you're in europe, the itf guys in europe apparently train pretty hard. it's been my experience in the US that it's best to go with non affiliated schools, they tend to say "screw the party line" and train in what thye think is best. this means they are either pretty damn good or pretty damn bad. but the good ones really are good as far as TKD is concerned.
  6. Phoenix is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/18/2004 2:17pm

    supporting member
     Style: JKD Concepts, Kyokushin

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by stillkicking
    Yeah, sound like linear attacks are foreign to WTF guys. The rules are partially to blame. As I recall, a kick of the front leg in WTF is not given ful points, hence, more circular kicks from the back leg.

    SK.
    Well, I don't know if I'd go so far to say that linear attacs are foreign to WTF guys. It's true that we don't use the side kick as extensively as you guys do in sparring, but many good TKD counters are done using the back kick (especially when countering roundhouse kicks or axe kicks), which is also a linear attack.

    I did have the opportunity to spar an ITF guy who visited my club. I was surprised at how much he relied on side kicking and jumping back kick techniques.
    "Onward we stagger, and if the tanks come, may God help the tanks." - Col. William O. Darby
  7. stillkicking is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/18/2004 3:32pm


     Style: Korean Capoiera

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Maverickz,

    Your point about non-affiliated schools is a good one.

    Now, the root of this thread is not really ITF vs. WTF per se - I guess what I really want to know is, not only how the two sparring systems compare, but how a set of rules could be written for both ITF and WTF fighters that would truly test which system was better.

    For example: if you're at an independent school - what rules do you follow? How do those rules change from tourney to tourney?

    Why not have a set of "OPEN TKD" rules that would really test the ITF vs WTF debate?

    Rising Pheonix, if you're in Alberta - I know for a fact there are plenty of top-qulity ITF guys out there. You mentioned that one visited your dojang. He relied on the side-kick, but how did he fare all together? Did he punch in the face? That is illeagal in WTF but perfectly legal in ITF.

    Anyway, I know the "rules" debate in TKD has been done - but frankly, it's never been resolved.

    What set of rules would truly test ITF vs. WTF? Can it be done?
    SK
    Last edited by stillkicking; 4/18/2004 3:34pm at .
  8. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/18/2004 4:07pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    * looks with blank face at discussion *

    But it's TKD.
  9. stillkicking is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/18/2004 4:12pm


     Style: Korean Capoiera

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by omega
    * looks with blank face at discussion *

    But it's TKD.
    Yadda yadda yadda.

    Moving on.

    Heh heh.
    SK.
  10. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/18/2004 4:13pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    But it's TKD
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