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  1. FranzZdyb is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2012 1:54pm


     Style: Judo

    -1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Too many lost randori's

    I need a little advice, or maybe just an encouraging word;

    I've just gotten the orange belt in Judo (in DK), after training for 1.5 years. I had a long break after breaking my arm in competition last november (got thrown on outstretched arm, still don't know how it could have happened), and also a break of about 2 months during the exam period. I have this friend who started not long after me and became my primary sparring partner, and I used to dominate him in randori's, almost always throwing him 3-4 times while he struggled to get a throw in. He's still a white belt, and weighs less than me. However, after these two breaks, he's suddenly loads better than me. Recently he threw me maybe 9-10 times, and I simply couldn't even put him off balance. My club is what you'd call top-heavy, with mostly black and brown belts, and the few other beginners are too light/weak/female to be worth fighting, because I can overpower their often superior technique with strength. I'm the worst fighter in my club right now, and it's pretty humiliating.

    Anyway, the purpose of this litany is not to wallow in selfpity, but to figure out how to get back on track. I am aware of the things I have to work on; timing, kuzushi, and combinations. I have good strength, but I can't use it. I was having a randori with this guest blackbelt, and he stopped me in the middle of it, to show me bloody osoto gari, and he was right, I was doing it all wrong; I didn't put his weight on the leg I wanted to sweep, and my timing was horrible - but at graduation last week, I did it perfect. A 3rd dan coach actually praised me for good technique. It seems that my technique in nage-komi is pretty good, but I just can't for the life of me use it properly in randori. When I ask my coaches to train these things, they respond with "this stuff comes with experience, you need to get better all over, etc."

    All in all, I'm tired of not having thrown anyone in randori for the past two months, and I want to do something about it, but I don't know how. I used to be a promising student, but that seems to have faded away.
  2. PizDoff is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2012 1:58pm

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     Style: Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Let go of your ego.



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  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/06/2012 2:04pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FranzZdyb View Post
    My club is what you'd call top-heavy, with mostly black and brown belts, and the few other beginners are too light/weak/female to be worth fighting, because I can overpower their often superior technique with strength. I'm the worst fighter in my club right now, and it's pretty humiliating.
    That sentence sums up your entire post.
    So, the weaker people have superior technique?
    Your coaches say you need to get better all over?
    You have to use superior strength and still struggle?

    You don't have the right attitude. Lose the egoist nature and work with EVERYONE.
  4. FranzZdyb is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2012 2:13pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    That sentence sums up your entire post.
    So, the weaker people have superior technique?
    Your coaches say you need to get better all over?
    You have to use superior strength and still struggle?

    You don't have the right attitude. Lose the egoist nature and work with EVERYONE.
    I'd love to work with everyone; they don't want to fight me because they get hurt. In any case, I'm only referring to 3-4 people, I can still fight with all the others.
    I realize my post sounds a little haughty, I didn't really mean it like that. When I say "worth fighting", it's not demeaning at all, I'm just saying that they can't really throw me because I'm strong and heavy, and I can't throw them with hurting them. So neither part learns much from randori, which after all is the point of it.

    PizDoff: Thanks for the video. Helps to know that Yoshida did what I did (and it looks exactly like what I did).

    I will let go of my ego. I know that losing randori's is not that big a deal, but it's better to realize that it's bothering me than trying to ignore it and be frustrated.

    I would still like to hear your input.
  5. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2012 2:21pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FranzZdyb View Post
    When I say "worth fighting", it's not demeaning at all, I'm just saying that they can't really throw me because I'm strong and heavy, and I can't throw them with hurting them.
    Still wrong. If you can't throw them without hurting them that's on you. You need to be throwing with technique so you can throw smaller people and not hurt them. That is a big part of all alive training. You need to be able to train with everyone and not hurt your training partners.

    Your fear of being thrown and your anxiety of not getting throws is what is distracting you from working clean technique.
  6. FranzZdyb is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2012 2:33pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark View Post
    If you can't throw them without hurting them that's on you. You need to be throwing with technique so you can throw smaller people and not hurt them.
    (...)
    Your fear of being thrown and your anxiety of not getting throws is what is distracting you from working clean technique.
    Well of course it's on me. I WANT to spar with them and throw clean and safe; I just never get the chance to do that anymore. Maybe I'll simply try again, and promise to be gentle.

    You might be right about the anxiety of not getting throws distracting me from improving. But it's certainly not the only thing. Also saying "I simply won't worry about it" doesn't change the fact that, I haven't thrown anyone in two months, and I'm in a bad loop. Don't you think that I already do my best to forget prior failures, and try to do my best yet again? I wouldn't have continued that fight after getting thrown 8 times if I only cared about my throws vs. uke's throws. But I thought, for the 9th time "I won't do that mistake again. One step closer to improvement".
    Thinking that is not enough. He countered my seoi nage in the same way like 4 times, and you might say "Well then you weren't paying enough attention", but committing to improving some mistake, and actually overpowering muscle memory and figuring out how to it correctly instead, are two different things. I'm asking for help with the second one.
  7. ignatzami is offline
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    l Travel To Get Choked!

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2012 2:34pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm an orange belt as well, my training is sporadic, and I'm not even close to good. My club, is top, and bottom, heavy. We run 10-week sessions, and have at any time between 10, and 15 black belts, and the same number, or more, white belts. The middle ranks, are rarer.

    I'm 6'3", 310lbs. I lift weights, and I lift heavy. I'm the biggest guy in class. I play everyone. I've thrown kids, children, a fifth of my weight, and they land softly. When I play someone of a lower rank, weight, or skill, I focus on my throws being perfect, on them landing perfectly, and I work on throws that I can't make work against a bigger opponent.

    When I play our higher belts, I focus on three, or four, go-to throws, and I try to make them play my game. I lose, a lot. I get thrown over, and over, and over. Yet I get up, and I go back to trying to play my game. Sometimes it works. Most times it doesn't.

    tl;dr

    When you play someone lighter, or less skilled, go for perfection of technique. Work with them, take a few falls, be a good partner.

    When you work with someone better, learn. That's the best thing you can do. Focus on a few core techniques, and get better at them.

    Lastly, stop counting who throws who. It's useless.
    I do not aspire to be great, or even good, I hope to suck a little less then last class.
  8. Lindz is online now

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2012 2:35pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Why can't you throw smaller people without hurting them? How are they getting hurt?
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/06/2012 2:36pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FranzZdyb View Post
    I'd love to work with everyone; they don't want to fight me because they get hurt. In any case, I'm only referring to 3-4 people, I can still fight with all the others.
    I realize my post sounds a little haughty, I didn't really mean it like that. When I say "worth fighting", it's not demeaning at all, I'm just saying that they can't really throw me because I'm strong and heavy, and I can't throw them with hurting them. So neither part learns much from randori, which after all is the point of it.

    PizDoff: Thanks for the video. Helps to know that Yoshida did what I did (and it looks exactly like what I did).

    I will let go of my ego. I know that losing randori's is not that big a deal, but it's better to realize that it's bothering me than trying to ignore it and be frustrated.

    I would still like to hear your input.
    Okay, I will let the others post because I read your new words and you did nothing to dispel my initial reaction. Actually, you made it worse.
  10. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/06/2012 2:36pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm guessing this means Franz is Danish.

    Quote Originally Posted by FranzZdyb View Post
    I've just gotten the orange belt in Judo (in DK)
    If English is a second language, maybe cut him a little slack if he sounds arrogant etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by FranzZdyb View Post
    Anyway, the purpose of this litany is not to wallow in selfpity, but to figure out how to get back on track. I am aware of the things I have to work on; timing, kuzushi, and combinations. I have good strength, but I can't use it.

    When I ask my coaches to train these things, they respond with "this stuff comes with experience, you need to get better all over, etc."
    They're right. It is just time.

    There are things you can do that will speed up the process.

    Reading these articles and then implementing them into your training and drilling will help do that:

    Drilling Kuzushi

    Positioning for nagewaza

    Forget about Kuzushi

    Quote Originally Posted by FranzZdyb View Post
    I will let go of my ego. I know that losing randori's is not that big a deal, but it's better to realize that it's bothering me than trying to ignore it and be frustrated.
    You will end up 'losing' a lot in randori, before you get better.

    The first step to reversing the trend is to stop thinking about it as 'losing', rather think about randori as a time for experimentation rather than a time for winning or losing.
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