Advice needed

**Permalost** · Posted On: 6/05/2012 4:55pm

Originally Posted by ChenPengFi

My point was that you might want to reconsider your stance on a grappling art.
You can tap to a choke early, you can't undo a headshot.
If it were me i'd be more concerned with the latter.

To be the devil's advocate- I'd guess there's a lot more guaranteed stress on the neck when grappling, even though it will be at a lower intensity. I trained a bit with a guy with a neck problem, and he'd be in pain just from moving him around with a collar/neck hold. That's such a fundamental thing in grappling that it made it awkward to not have the option (he quit grappling for understandable reasons). Then you have jarring the neck from getting thrown/taken down, which can also be pretty crappy.

**ChenPengFi** · Posted On: 6/05/2012 11:31pm

That's a fair enough point.
Anecdotally, my BJJ experience has been surprisingly gentle on my neck, and i speak as someone with an old compression fracture of C4 from a gymnastics accident.
While the stress is more constant rolling, the high-velocity movements due to an absorbed strike, (or granted even more so a takedown/throw) are more worrisome/painful imo.
Striking sparring almost always makes my neck hurt, even from slipping etc it seems.
The BJJ rolling seems to be less damaging overall and even a bit therapeutic, if i may go so far, ymmv.

**Marmoset541** · Posted On: 6/27/2012 10:32am

For grappling, it depends on if the art you'd look into uses a lot of throws or higher impact take downs. That being said breakfalls would be a must. Even one bad fall can snap your head into the mat. In terms of striking, a headshot can do serious damage, as everyone is saying. (I've known people who had vertebrae slip from rough kicks) The main thing I would suggest is make sure that you're healed up and comfortable before trying anything you're unsure of. I'm all for training hard, but we need to train smart too.

**Arfff** · Posted On: 8/17/2012 11:13pm

Tang Soo Do if it is a legitimate school is the original of the modern Korean Karate officially forming in the 40's and derive from ancient arts. TKD which wasn't around until '65 is watered down greatly from there. ATA, even more recent, is watered down even further from TKD.

Having started in Tang Soo Do years ago and studying under several TKD schools and an American Kickboxing school plus currently an ATA school(only choice), if I were serious about my art I'd go for the Tang Soo Do over ATA. The depth of what one can study under a good Tang Soo Do school will be much greater.

**Miguksaram** · Posted On: 8/20/2012 9:24am

Originally Posted by Arfff

Tang Soo Do if it is a legitimate school is the original of the modern Korean Karate officially forming in the 40's and derive from ancient arts. TKD which wasn't around until '65 is watered down greatly from there. ATA, even more recent, is watered down even further from TKD.

A couple of things. TSD was not the origin of modern TKD. Without going into extensive writing on the history, Lee, Won-kuk was the first to open up a dojang in Korea after WW2. Hwang-ki, did not have any extensive training outside of chuan'fa he learned in Manchuria and reading up on Okinawa forms. At one point he started training with Lee, Won-kuk and GM Lee allowed Hwang-ki to use the term TSD when he opened up his school. You also have to note that TKD was a joint effort of many kwans coming together to establish a unified Korean art, not just one person.

The official name of Taekwondo may have been established around 1965, however, it existed as an organization way before then as Taesoodo, and before that Kongsoodo and it was not watered down, by any means of the word. So I am not sure why you would think that.

Having started in Tang Soo Do years ago and studying under several TKD schools and an American Kickboxing school plus currently an ATA school(only choice), if I were serious about my art I'd go for the Tang Soo Do over ATA. The depth of what one can study under a good Tang Soo Do school will be much greater.

Depends on the school. There are some ATA schools with good instructors. They may be pricey, but that does not automatically mean crappy. I have also seen TSD schools which suck just as much ass with crappy instructors.

**Arfff** · Posted On: 8/20/2012 7:40pm

Originally Posted by Miguksaram

A couple of things. TSD was not the origin of modern TKD. Without going into extensive writing on the history, Lee, Won-kuk was the first to open up a dojang in Korea after WW2. Hwang-ki, did not have any extensive training outside of chuan'fa he learned in Manchuria and reading up on Okinawa forms.

Depends on the school. There are some ATA schools with good instructors. They may be pricey, but that does not automatically mean crappy. I have also seen TSD schools which suck just as much ass with crappy instructors.

Don't mean to get into the history because it is unknown exactly where any of it originated or after the war when a ravaged Korea rebuilt, who was ahead of whom. Grand Master Hwang Kee opened TSD in Korea after the war in 1945 and that is all that is definitive yet it has roots back 2000+ years as do all the early schools.

TKD is an attempt to merge all the Korean Arts at the time in 1965 under a unified name. In my experience, the depth of material one can study within the framework of a TSD school is greater than what is offered in a TKD school. Of course, one can always go outside the framework of their curriculum and learn anything with the right instructors.

I do agree with you that there can be "crappy" instructors at any school, but that wasn't mentioned in my original post. Merely that the depth of material to study should be greater in a TSD school vs an ATA school which is directly from my experience with both schools. All other things being equal, based on the experience I've had personally, I would go with the TSD school which begs to his original request for "advice needed."

**Miguksaram** · Posted On: 8/21/2012 8:14am

Originally Posted by Arfff

Don't mean to get into the history because it is unknown exactly where any of it originated or after the war when a ravaged Korea rebuilt, who was ahead of whom. Grand Master Hwang Kee opened TSD in Korea after the war in 1945 and that is all that is definitive yet it has roots back 2000+ years as do all the early schools.

Actually history is known, and there are pleanty or resources out there. There is no 2000 year old history. This was something that I believe Gen. Choi came up to spur nationalism in promoting TKD. Do some research. I would recommend "Modern History of Taekwondo" which will give you better insight into the Kwans origins as well as the full development of KKW TKD. GM Hwang-kee opened his school roughly 1946. However, GM Lee, Won-kuk opened his rough around 1944 or 45. This is documented and you can even go to Korea to look up these facts as they still have these type of records. You can even locate and call the Chungdokwan HQ to verify this type of information. So yes it is out there. I have been involved in the martial arts for 30 years and about 25+ of those years have been directly with the Korean arts. I would say my history research on TKD history as well as Korean history in general has been about 13 years. So believe me, the information is out there if you search hard enought.

TKD is an attempt to merge all the Korean Arts at the time in 1965 under a unified name.

Again, the official name came about that time, but the Korean arts were unified prior to that, under Taesoodo and before that Kongsoodo.

In my experience, the depth of material one can study within the framework of a TSD school is greater than what is offered in a TKD school.

Right, under your experience, so let's not generalize. Saying all TKD was watered down in 1965, when you are basing this off of your limited experience with a couple of local TKD and TSD schools.

I do agree with you that there can be "crappy" instructors at any school, but that wasn't mentioned in my original post. Merely that the depth of material to study should be greater in a TSD school vs an ATA school which is directly from my experience with both schools.

While I understand where you are coming from my point was that your statements made it sound like you were making a general statement of all ATA schools vs all TSD schools.

All other things being equal, based on the experience I've had personally, I would go with the TSD school which begs to his original request for "advice needed."

Which is fine if that was your original post, but you brought up history which is what I was correcting you on. As well as putting in the fact that just because you got a raw deal in your experience, the OP should understand that any school can be crappy regardless of style or organization.

**jimmygraham35** · Posted On: 9/05/2012 12:08am

TKD is the way to go. It's all kicking and punching and what not.

**Eric-The-Red** · Posted On: 9/10/2012 9:07pm

IMO, any school that has contracts takes quick dive, in my book. The emphasis on breaking is a red flag to me too. From what you have described, the TSD school is the better option. Go and ask if you can observe a class. Most importantly TALK WITH THE INSTRUCTOR(S) ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED. Voice your health concerns. If they are decent instructors, they will be willing to work with/around such concerns. As for starting over? How many years did it take to get where you are? If it wasn't much time, then it's not a big deal. If it was several years, belts shouldn't matter to you as much, and those years are not wasted. It should not be difficult to work through another style, particularly one that is relatively similar.