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  1. mike321 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/26/2012 10:06pm


     Style: kenpo, Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well I will start with taxes:

    I oppose targeting taxes in ANY way. Tax is for revenue. Not morality, retirement planning, home buying, subsidizing preferred businesses, charity etc. You donate money to poor or go to Vegas and gamble. I don't want to control anyone.

    Progressive I am ok with but I believe in income equality. Capital gains, earned, inheritance, lottery, dividend interest. I don't care.

    So are any of these ideas socialist capitalist other? They may be incredibly dumb ideas. I just want to stop controlling people and have equality under the law.
  2. danno is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/26/2012 11:14pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by mike321 View Post
    Tax is for revenue. Not morality, retirement planning, home buying, subsidizing preferred businesses, charity etc.
    What if a tax came along which might benefit society enormously, but it didn't fit into your definition of what tax should be? Would you reject it based on your ideals of what tax should be for?

    Know what I mean? You may be locked into an idea, regardless of the outcome in the real world.
  3. mike321 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/27/2012 12:02am


     Style: kenpo, Wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would support that tax in your hypothetical example that benefited society so massively. However, I had seen numerous super important have to have will benefit society tax law modifications.

    Examples:
    Capital gains cuts to stimulate economy.
    Payroll tax cuts to stimulate.
    Taxes to pay for stadiums that will "help" society
    Tax cuts to lure businesses for jobs
    Property taxes that help society
    Taxes to cure smoking addiction
    Taxes to cross the bridge to pay for ferry boats
    Mortgage interest tax deduction (that ended well)
    The list goes on and I am still waiting for utopia
  4. danno is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/27/2012 12:45am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So if I could show you that raising taxes on cigarettes reduced deaths from smoking, would you be in favour of it?
  5. cualltaigh is online now
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    Posted On:
    6/27/2012 12:52am


     Style: BJJ, MMA, JJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by mike321 View Post
    Mortgage interest tax deduction (that ended well)
    Like what, taxable deduction for interest on your personal residence?

    haha, you crazy 'Muricans and your wacky ideas...
    Dum spiro, spero.
    Tada gan iarracht.
  6. mike321 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/27/2012 12:55am


     Style: kenpo, Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    So if I could show you that raising taxes on cigarettes reduced deaths from smoking, would you be in favour of it?
    No. I don't want people smoking. But taxes should be for revenue not social policy.

    Don't get me wrong I am tempted by targeted taxes and all that stuff but I do believe it should be avoided. Good intentions and all that stuff...
  7. danno is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/27/2012 1:03am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by mike321 View Post
    Don't get me wrong I am tempted by targeted taxes and all that stuff but I do believe it should be avoided. Good intentions and all that stuff...
    Of course, I'm not judging you as a bad person or anything like that.

    I'm just saying that you may be rejecting that idea out of principle, rather than for any pragmatic reason.

    If smokers reduce productivity and raise medical costs for their family and the country, shouldn't they contribute towards minimising that cost? And if smokes are more expensive to buy, it may also reduce the number of people smoking in the first place. The real losers are the cigarette companies, but it's better for everyone else.

    What if the good intentions actually get good results?
  8. P Marsh is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/27/2012 1:20am


     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by elipson View Post
    ... sic...
    ""Social ownership" may refer to any one of, or a combination of, the following: cooperative enterprises, common ownership, direct public ownership or autonomous state enterprises.[2] There are many variations of socialism and as such there is no single definition encapsulating all of socialism."

    You kind of just proved my point about how the American rhetoric surrounding state control of economics has turned socialism into a synonym with communism. Canada has "crown corporations" which are state owned companies to ensure a competitive option to the public (Petro Canada, Air Canada etc.) although many have been sold off over the years. Socialism is a baseline definition merely covering the concept of a state having an influence over the economics of the nation.

    I do completely agree with you that Obama hasn't done anything near socialism with what he enacted or approved of during his presidency mainly due to the puzzling stranglehold the Republican party somehow commands over American governance. The ghost of Lincoln must be very powerful.
  9. W. Rabbit is offline
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    insight combined with intel, fuse, and dynamite

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    Posted On:
    6/27/2012 8:27am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by mike321 View Post
    Red scares and attempts to paint political enemies as secret Soviet conspirators intending to take over US both predate cable television...
    Fixed, but cable is what made it profitable on a mass consumer scale and why Fox is king of the cable news ratings: someone had to sell fear and paranoia (of Muslims, of Democrats) to the masses.

    No one breathed a word of the "socialism" boogeyman before the 2008 election, then it was all over Fox. It is a political game the GOP used (as they've done before) when they realized the Democratic nominee actually went to college and studied, and read books with divergent viewpoints.

    And they've been riding on that "guilty because of what you read" kick ever since.

    Read Sun Tzu? it must make you a militant!

    Read Saul Alinsky? Must make you a radical!

    Read Mao? You must be a secret saboteur of the People's Liberation Army!

    Read Oprah?! You're a man-hating she-witch!!!! BURN THEM ALL!!!!!

    or....



















































    Or just stop watching cable TV designed to drive you mad and bias your vote.

    /thread
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 6/27/2012 8:45am at .
  10. mike321 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/27/2012 9:01am


     Style: kenpo, Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok we will get rid of socialism as bogeyman and replace it with cable tv.

    And add a dose of anyone who disagrees with me is brainwashed.

    I think there is actual real disagreements in the us on gov size/scope and I don't think it is just about effective propaganda from "fox new" or the flip side "main stream media".
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