Socialism: the Great American Boogyman

**danno** · Posted On: 6/19/2012 7:28pm

No truly laissez-faire state with a completely free market exists.

**mike321** · Posted On: 6/19/2012 9:13pm

Originally Posted by danno

No truly laissez-faire state with a completely free market exists.

Without citation, just lots of anecdotal observations, it can't work because lots of successful business people will not miss a beat in rigging the system once they got theirs.

**P Marsh** · Posted On: 6/19/2012 9:59pm

Originally Posted by danno

No truly laissez-faire state with a completely free market exists.

They did once though and if you wish to see or get a feel for what living in a true free-market society would be like just pick up some Mark Twain or more preferably Charles Dickens.

bit of a spoiler: wasn't all its cracked up to be now; remember that when talking to libertarians.

**danno** · Posted On: 6/20/2012 1:22am

It's silly to debate one vs the other. Every developed country has varying degrees of both. It's shouldn't be a debate about socialism vs capitalism in the first place.

It's a false dichotomy between idealogical extremes. What people are doing right now is just labelling policies they don't like as socialist or capitalist, skipping the whole debate over whether the policy might actually be a good idea.

***battlefields*** · Posted On: 6/20/2012 1:41am

Originally Posted by danno

It's silly to debate one vs the other. Every developed country has varying degrees of both. It's shouldn't be a debate about socialism vs capitalism in the first place.

It's a false dichotomy between idealogical extremes. What people are doing right now is just labelling policies they don't like as socialist or capitalist, skipping the whole debate over whether the policy might actually be a good idea.

That's just what a communist would say.

**danno** · Posted On: 6/20/2012 5:33am

Not the first time I've been called a communist on this site.

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 6/20/2012 5:49am

Originally Posted by P Marsh

They did once though and if you wish to see or get a feel for what living in a true free-market society would be like just pick up some Mark Twain or more preferably Charles Dickens.

Dude I was doing some research into the Napoleonic wars and found this great historical source called 'Sharpe'. You should check it out.

Originally Posted by P Marsh

bit of a spoiler: wasn't all its cracked up to be now; remember that when talking to libertarians.

Anyone who thinks the laissez faire of the 18th-19th centuries was perfect is being a bit silly. However, what critics of the laissez faire of the 18th-19th centuries never truly come to terms with is how much worse life was for ordinary people in previous centuries.

Its all well and good to get on a high horse about child labour and crowded dirty cities, but compared to child labour in fields and living in tumble down mud huts. It starts to not look so terrible. Not perfect, but not as bad as life was before.

**DCS** · Posted On: 6/20/2012 5:58am

Yeah, because before 18th -19th centuries laissez faire capitalism went rampant people was living under socialist regimes.

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 6/20/2012 6:14am

Originally Posted by DCS

Yeah, because before 18th -19th centuries laissez faire capitalism went rampant people was living under socialist regimes.

Can't be bothered to kick down strawmen. Come up with a critique of an argument I actually made and we can have a debate.

**danno** · Posted On: 6/20/2012 6:21am

Originally Posted by judoka_uk

Anyone who thinks the laissez faire of the 18th-19th centuries was perfect is being a bit silly. However, what critics of the laissez faire of the 18th-19th centuries never truly come to terms with is how much worse life was for ordinary people in previous centuries.

Its all well and good to get on a high horse about child labour and crowded dirty cities, but compared to child labour in fields and living in tumble down mud huts. It starts to not look so terrible. Not perfect, but not as bad as life was before.

Depends. I'd rather live in a mud hut with a little more spare time and food than the city dwellers. You might have some specific examples in mind though?