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  1. #1

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    Socialism: the Great American Boogyman

    Since Phrost is on the verge of having an aneurysm, I'm posting my one reply here.

    Quote Originally Posted by slamdunc View Post
    I didn't refer to Canada as a socialist state; it is my understanding that Canada is a monarchy with a parliamentary government.
    The assumption here is that a constitutional monarchy and socialist democracy are mutually exclusive. The monarchy and it's state figurehead the Governor General have absolutely nothing to do with the making of laws and policy in Canada. Canada operates with socialist ideals and structures in its government
    Quote Originally Posted by slamdunc View Post
    This may be administered in a socialist manner, but does that make Canada socialist?
    If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck what else would it be?

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    Do they adhere to the leftist ideology?

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    Socialism seems to conflict with individual rights. Individual rights are particularly important to Americans because we tie it to our definition of freedom. In many ways other countries I have visited have more freedom depending on how you define it. Socialism seems to be stronger on civil rights. I think there is always a tension between civil and individual rights. The civil right movement in my opinion was a positive for the US but it did limit individual rights (mostly to be an asshole, but I digress.)

    The socialism good or bad might be a proxy fight for the individual/civil right issue.

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    Rivington's Avatar
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    Nations such as Canada are most often referred to as social democracies, not socialist democracies. The left end of such democracies—say, Allende's Chile or perhaps Greece in a few weeks, have a better claim for being called socialist democracies (often there's significant, quick nationalization, a popular movement giving the elected left party significant political efficacy to remake society etc, etc.). Both of these are rather different than party-run states, such as the former Soviet Union, Cuba, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RurikGreenwulf View Post
    Do they adhere to the leftist ideology?
    The current Conservative Party government is probably the least leftist group out there (pointless anti-crime legislation, very pro business) but they will strongly defend the social/socialist cornerstones of Canada such as the all famed universal health care, welfare system, and our newly bronzed strong regulations of vital economic industries such as our banking system (primarily out of pride for not sending us into a ditch after the 2008 collapse).

    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    Nations such as Canada are most often referred to as social democracies, not socialist democracies. The left end of such democracies—say, Allende's Chile or perhaps Greece in a few weeks, have a better claim for being called socialist democracies (often there's significant, quick nationalization, a popular movement giving the elected left party significant political efficacy to remake society etc, etc.). Both of these are rather different than party-run states, such as the former Soviet Union, Cuba, etc.
    Now were sort of hitting a debate of "how socialist do you have to be to be Socialist?" Canada is definitely a very right wing socialist nation but compared to say France, which is seen as more socialist, has pretty much the same programs and institutions as Canada but they are just more extensive, better funded, or simply larger.

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    I don't like the way socialism is being portrayed in current U.S. politics. It's being used as sort of a vague accusation by conservatives, used to describe any policy they don't agree with. This has mostly been propagated by politicians and media figures as a tool to score political points. In reality, socialist functions of the U.S. government typically have very high approval, regardless of political affiliation.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cambridge View Post
    In reality, socialist functions of the U.S. government typically have very high approval, regardless of political affiliation.
    Prove it.

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    Citation is needed. Would not be shocked that a nation that is against socialism generally would only have socialist programs that are overwhelmingly popular.

  9. #9
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    Let me lambast you with Wikipedia quotes relating to the many colours of the socialist rainbow.

    Social democracy is a political ideology that considers itself to be a form of reformist democratic socialism. Social democracy argues that all citizens should be legally entitled to certain social rights. These are made up of universal access to public services such as: education, health care, workers' compensation, and other services including child care and care for the elderly. Social democracy is connected with the trade union labour movement and supports collective bargaining rights for workers. Contemporary social democracy advocates freedom from discrimination based on differences of: ability/disability, age, social class, ethnicity, gender, language, race, religion, and sexual orientation.
    ...
    Contemporary social democracy since the 1930s has diminished its differences with non-socialist parties. By the post-World War II period, most social democrats in Europe had abandoned all remaining ideological connection to Marxism.
    ...
    Critics of contemporary social democracy such as Jonas Hinnfors argue that when social democracy abandoned Marxism it also abandoned socialism and has become in effect a liberal movement. They also argue that "socialism" only remains a rhetorical term used by contemporary social democrats and that they do not genuinely intend to replace capitalism with a socialist economic system... It has been claimed that social democracy as a form of socialism has in effect ceased to exist as an autonomous ideology and that it is now in effect another term to define social liberalism.
    Social liberalism is the belief that liberalism should include social justice. It differs from classical liberalism in that it believes the legitimate role of the state includes addressing economic and social issues such as unemployment, health care, and education while simultaneously expanding civil rights. Social liberalism supports capitalism but stresses the need of social capital as a precondition to both capitalism and liberal democracy and rejects unchecked laissez-faire economics for failing to recognize the necessity of social capital. Social liberalism views liberal democracy as being at its best when its individualism in society and in capitalism is moderated by public spirit and a readiness to associate.
    The term Third Way refers to various political positions which try to reconcile right-wing and left-wing politics by advocating a varying synthesis of right-wing economic and left-wing social policies.
    Seems to me like people are oversimplifying **** in the public debate. People are debating laissez-faire capitalism vs communism, but neither actually exist in reality because they suck cock.

  10. #10
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    Not sure that someone whose country only exists, because of laissez faire capitalism should be so dismissive of it.

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