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  1. OldShintaro is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/30/2012 12:55am


     Style: Kyokushinkai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    that's the same damn issue with all of these styles, claiming "quality control" & ****. "Oh, I have a friend that trains it for r34L and it works!" Whatever. Silat is the same, if not worse than the Bujinkan, over this issue. Finding quality Silat or Bujinkan training is like finding a needle in a haystack, & even then, it's STILL just Silat or Bujinkan. Guys in the Booj who can actually fight are guaranteed to have brought fighting skills with them, or they picked them up thru cross training. Anyone would be better off doing Judo plus Boxing or Muay Thai. Plus, most anyone doing Bujinkan weapons sucks because they don't really spar, FMAs that do contact training will yield much better results for less time & money. If I could go back & do it all again, I'd do it different.
    The problem with Bujinkan is that the level of instructor is very low, to the point of laughable.
    My personal belief is that when the scrolls were written, punching and throwing were quite simply common knowledge. It wasn't a choice but needed as it was a very violent society. The problem is now we all don't have that common knowledge, it is lost due to having a structured society with Police.
  2. OldShintaro is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/30/2012 12:58am


     Style: Kyokushinkai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I heard that Tassie is still in the 80's.
  3. BJMills is online now

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    Posted On:
    5/30/2012 1:11am


     Style: Muay Thai/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here's my take on this thread...

    OldShinatero comes in with, 'the Booj has gone downhill.' It's a website where people advocate live training so... on theone hand no one is going to disagree that is sucks.

    But...

    The counter argument is, maybe yes, maybe no, doesn't matter, point is it has always sucked from day 1.

    After enough ex-boojers chime in and say it always sucked he starts to move to the 'r3al d3adly' that was Australian booj in the 90s. Like it was important to learn the concepts in the booj, just not the techniques as they are actually taught. Magical thinking at its stupidest.

    More ex-boojers who trained in Japan even earlier chime in so that argument dies on a vine.

    So we get to the scrolls... but that can't fly because no one even takes it seriously.

    Which leaves OldShinatro with the 'advanced' argument where you know, once you have all the basics- because them ninjers were really samurai way back when you add the booj stuff to them.

    The crux if this argument is, if you already have good throws the booj will make them better. If you already have good standup the booj will make it better. If you already have good joint locks the booj will make them better... ad infinitim.

    Here's the thing though Old boy. If you have all those things, and can already fight, adding the crap that the booj teaches will only make them worse. Not better. Not different in a good way. Just plain fucking worse.

    Clearly and obviously you're still clinging to your idea that there's a lot of good in the booj, if you just find the right angle to get to it.

    Go back to the old Takamatsu videos, look at what he is teaching. If you really did and Judo or kyokushin worth a damn you can see it for the bullshit that it is from miles away.

    That fat crack whore in torn fishnets sitting on the corner, you don't need to get intimate with her to know she's a fat crack whore. There's not a beautiful princess hiding inside those cum crusted panties of hers.

    I'm sorry, I really am, you wasted a lot of time and money I'm sure, but give it up.
  4. Gezere is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/30/2012 1:21am

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     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by OldShintaro View Post
    The problem with Bujinkan is that the level of instructor is very low, to the point of laughable.
    My personal belief is that when the scrolls were written, punching and throwing were quite simply common knowledge. It wasn't a choice but needed as it was a very violent society. The problem is now we all don't have that common knowledge, it is lost due to having a structured society with Police.
    Have you actually ever sat down and read any densho or makimono? The don't really hold a lot of information in the first place. Most of the time they are not illustrated, and those that are they are mostly done poorly unless the author had some artistic skill. They are usually a catalog of techniques and IF they are described they are usually something like "grab hand and throw to the ground." They are not very useful unless you are already versed in the school. I own several and I know anyone who read them would not get a good idea of that to do. I mention this because you brought up "scrolls" several times.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  5. OldShintaro is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/30/2012 1:26am


     Style: Kyokushinkai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    First all this from someone who has never done Bujinkan?

    Not once did I use those small minded words "Real Deadly", they are your words.
    If you can read Classical Japanese, I am quite happy to talk about scrolls. So you have another opinion that you know nothing about.

    Bujinkan is not meant to make anything better. Again your words. I used "Add-on". Maybe your having trouble with that?
    I have no regrets.

    But what I don't understand is the person with the biggest opinion has never, by their own admission, done Bujinkan.
  6. OldShintaro is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/30/2012 1:29am


     Style: Kyokushinkai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gezere View Post
    Have you actually ever sat down and read and densho or makimono? The don't really hold a lot of information in the first place. Most of the time they are not illustrated, and those that are they are mostly done poorly unless the author had some artistic skill. They are usually a catalog of techniques and IF they are described they are usually something like "grab hand and throw to the ground." They are not very useful unless you are already versed in the school. I own several and I know anyone who read them would not get a good idea of that to do. I mention this because you brought up "scrolls" several times.
    No mate, I have never had a translation. But wouldn't the experienced people add commentary for others? That way it get taught at a known state?

    Do you have it in Classical Japanese? Or just the translation?
    I've seen Wolfgangs publications.
  7. Colin is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/30/2012 1:38am

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     Style: MT/BJJ/MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The real deadly, apparently:

  8. BJMills is online now

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    Posted On:
    5/30/2012 1:56am


     Style: Muay Thai/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by OldShintaro View Post
    First all this from someone who has never done Bujinkan?

    Not once did I use those small minded words "Real Deadly", they are your words.
    If you can read Classical Japanese, I am quite happy to talk about scrolls. So you have another opinion that you know nothing about.

    Bujinkan is not meant to make anything better. Again your words. I used "Add-on". Maybe your having trouble with that?
    I have no regrets.

    But what I don't understand is the person with the biggest opinion has never, by their own admission, done Bujinkan.
    My opinion on the booj is roughly equivelent to my opinion on- say- drunken style kung fu. Which I also have not ever wasted my time with. In fact, feel free to substitute 'drunken style kung fu' anywhere I have written booj, maybe you can look at the argument less emotionally.

    Here's the thing, there's tons and tons and tons of evidence of its bullshit. Tons. You still haven't responded to my comments of the Takamatsu videos. I mean, that's about a old school and authentic as you can get booj-wise. But I'm asking you again, does that look remotely effective?

    So, point is, every single thing put out by the booj, looks like bullshit. Former booj members who have moved on to alive arts say it is bullshit.

    If you're going to post on this website with the idea that there's good stuff in the booj- despite mountains of evidence to the contrary- mountains- then you're going to need to provide something other than your theory about the old magic ninja scrolls.

    If you want to have a ninja bitch/love fest go to MAP or Martial Talk. You will find plenty of like minded people who still drink the koolaid. Here you're going to have to back up your bullshit with something other than more bullshit.

    And just to be clear the 'r3al d3adly,' which was brough up by another poster by the way, is a reference to a type of argument we see all the time on this website. Often in reference to Wing Chun but ninjas aren't above it. The gist of it is, 'X martial art may seem really crappy, but if you trained at Y time under Z instructor then you got the real martial art and it's deadly skills.

    This is the old tired argument you started with, you just haven't been around long enough to know how old, how tired and how stupid it is.
  9. Gezere is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/30/2012 1:59am

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     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by OldShintaro View Post
    No mate, I have never had a translation. But wouldn't the experienced people add commentary for others? That way it get taught at a known state?
    They are used mainly as a reference and catalog. Outside of the school they generally wouldn't do anyone much good. You had to be experienced to really get something out of it. So basically you would get to a high enough level then be able to either read or make a copy of the schools literature.

    Do you have it in Classical Japanese? Or just the translation?
    I've seen Wolfgangs publications.
    I have them in both Classical and contemporary Japanese.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  10. OldShintaro is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/30/2012 2:17am


     Style: Kyokushinkai

    -1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    OMG BJMills let it go. Everyone here has heard you multiple times. Yes, you don't like Bujinkan. You think its **** ra...ra...ra..ra
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