222041 Bullies, 4311 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 11 to 20 of 277
Page 2 of 28 FirstFirst 12 345612 ... LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. OldShintaro is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    117

    Posted On:
    5/28/2012 7:56pm


     Style: Kyokushinkai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    BJMills,
    LOL, You crack me up mate.

    Yea, most of the good instructors show the long version, usually 3 times. Then they show the real version (about 80 - 90% pace). And guess what, they do screw up every now and then, getting a punch or kick that contacts. I know, I have punched the instructor before, not the most popular move, but he **** happens, people have off days. Now they understand I am not going pull a punch when they say 80%. Mind you If I contact, I expect a punch in return in a later technique, but who gives a ****. All part of the learning cycle.

    Favourite saying: Drink a glass of concrete and harden the F&%$ up!

    But I totally agree the video looks like total BS.

    I guess I am not in the "Inner circle" to understand the 'subtlety'. Who cares!

    I suppose the way that I would suggest to look at those videos though, is get the basic idea of the technique, then shorten it up. With the training partner not telegraphing the crap out of his kick or punch.
  2. BJMills is online now

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    453

    Posted On:
    5/28/2012 8:40pm


     Style: Muay Thai/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The basic idea of what?

    How to catch a punch between your chin and shoulder? There is no reasonable way of pulling that off without a totally compliant opponent.

    There's nothing in either of those videos that applies to a non compliant attacker. Nothing, there is nothing to refine.

    Here's another video, but this time about Judo:



    If you go to about the three minute mark he talks about O Soto Gari. The reason I bring it up is I think I saw a similar throw in one of those ninja vids.

    Anyway, here is a Judka explaining some of the subtleties of O Soto Gari on a compliant opponent. He is moving very slowly and talking as he makes each move. I personally happen to think its a great video, but I have only been into Judo for a year or so, so mabye others with more experience won't get as much from it. Whatever.

    Point is, the technique he is walking through and demonstrating is 100% exactly how it is pulled off against resisiting opponents in competition. There's no magic 'refining' to be done where someone shows you a little bit of bullshit and you somehow ingest the concept then come out with something that will actually work.

    That idea only exists in compliant martial art training. Not in any other sport, not in the use of firearms, not in rock climbing, diving, kyaking, not in anything where you actually have to perform well to succeed.

    I saw you have a thread in newbietown where you mention you did some sparring. Did you stand in your ichimonji no kame? Did you block puches with jodan uke and apply a standing lock? Did you spar and actually do anything that resembles anything that is taught as ninjutus, or ninpo taijutsu or budo taijutsu or whatever they are calling it now?

    My whole point to all this is- from an outisider's perspective- you're bitching about the quality of the booj when in fact even if everyone in that organization executed their 'battlefield tested' (love that line) techniques perfecty, they would still get their asses kicked by anyone with any skill and plenty of people without any skill at all.

    There are a lot of sucky people in the booj becuase sucky people tend to gravitate towards compliant martial arts. People who want to test their skills against others, be it friendly sparring or competition, don't tend to stick around in those types of environments.
  3. drizzt777 is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    91

    Posted On:
    5/28/2012 8:42pm


     Style: FMA, JJ, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Old Shintaro - I was in the org as I stated for nearly 16 years. I was around for a good bit of the BS. Its why I left. I am not anti-Buj....I am against non working impractical things. Also the fact some of the ryu are in wuestion leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The biggest kicker is that because I wanted to crosstrain I was constantly scolded and talked down to. I am a grown man. I will not cowtow to other people just because they disagree with me.

    Btw BJMills- I agree. Battlefield tested is a funny line :)

    Here is the thing. I do Jujutsu and Judo because you HAVE to do it right or it doesn't work. Good training equals resistance to ensure you can do it under pressure. If sparring on some level is not involved and your excusei is its too deadly well....you know the argument.
    Last edited by drizzt777; 5/28/2012 8:47pm at .
  4. OldShintaro is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    117

    Posted On:
    5/28/2012 8:53pm


     Style: Kyokushinkai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    drizzt777,
    Yep, I have never understood that either when people have told me.
    Of course the other thing is to just do the other martial art and not tell them at Bujinkan, if you wanted avoid the conflict.
    Who gives a "Flying rats ass" what other martial art people do. I *think* the Japanese will generally do at least 2 MA at any one time anyway.

    The only problem that I could think of to watch out for, is trying to separate the 2 MA in your head.
    Mind you if upon sign up you agreed on paper that you would only do their particular MA then you would probably have to adhere to that. But I don't know anyone that does that.
    Last edited by OldShintaro; 5/28/2012 8:55pm at . Reason: formatting
  5. drizzt777 is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    91

    Posted On:
    5/28/2012 9:46pm


     Style: FMA, JJ, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't have to really keep anything separated as what I do is all closely related (stick stuff carries to empty hand pretty well) and it was never a time in those 16 years I was not cross training. Thing with the Buj is that I am never goibg back. It may work or may not. Outside of Japan though few of the guys are worth training with. Just my opinion. On side note my friend I am glad to see people like you coming forth to state what you see as wrong. Its very good to know many of us were not wrong.
  6. OldShintaro is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    117

    Posted On:
    5/28/2012 10:12pm


     Style: Kyokushinkai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    BJMills,

    I totally agree, catch a punch with your chin, yea right, what drugs is he on.
    Please don't be focused on the bullshit. There are plenty of techniques that work well.
    The sparring that I did I was always in a slightly wider stance than natural with my left protecting my face and my right protecting the right side of my head. With blocking I used whatever part of my arm that stopped the punch. I hope that you don't think that in a fight, that looks like what you train in the Dojo.
    "Battle field tested" To be honest I think I only heard that term in the mid to late 90's. But isn't every MA "Battle field tested" because only the people that survived the battle came home to pass on knowledge?
    You know the way that it is taught at the moment, I am not surprised that think , what you think.

    And despite that you think people don't stick around, some people still have faith that things will change. There are plenty of really good people in Bujinkan, it is just that their style is too confrontational for the typical wannabe complaining fairy Ninjer.
    Last edited by OldShintaro; 5/28/2012 10:16pm at . Reason: Grammar
  7. BJMills is online now

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    453

    Posted On:
    5/29/2012 12:03am


     Style: Muay Thai/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I- and I think pretty much everyone on this site- know that sparring does not equal a real fight. But the key word is pressure testing. It's one thing to pull off a technique if you know exactly what punch or kick is coming, different if you don't. But I think you probably agree, so that's enough about that.

    The point I was trying to make with the Judo clip was, people train Judo exactly the way they perform Judo. And that performance is against resisting opponents, which is much closer to what you're going to find in a real fight than someone who flies backwards or crumbles when you hit them with an omote shuto... after they've attacked you with the lunge punch you knew was coming.

    My point is the way techniques are practiced in the Buj, even by the people that are held to a higher standard, those mysterious Japanese Shihan, they're just not going to fucking work against someone who is 1) not throwing a pre-planned attack and 2) resisting, when you try to execute your proper technique.

    No, sparring is not a real fight, but sparring is pressure testing where you can either make the stuff you train work or not. If you practice perfect flawless ninjutsu (or whatever you want to call it) but have to change up your technique when you spar in order to be effective then there is something wrong with the way you are training.

    So how about this, if you still think the Buj has something to offer when practiced correctly, what exactly is it? Because even the stuff with Hatsumi looks like larping.

    Just to be clear, I'm not picking on the Buj specifically, there are plenty of non competative TMAs that I'd say the exact same thing about, the thread just happens to be about this one.
  8. OldShintaro is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    117

    Posted On:
    5/29/2012 12:52am


     Style: Kyokushinkai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I- and I think pretty much everyone on this site- know that sparring does not equal a real fight. But the key word is pressure testing. It's one thing to pull off a technique if you know exactly what punch or kick is coming, different if you don't. But I think you probably agree, so that's enough about that.
    Well isn't that the point about sparring, close to real, as safely possible. It is not sparring if it is pre-planned, probably just dancing. LOL

    The point I was trying to make with the Judo clip was, people train Judo exactly the way they perform Judo. And that performance is against resisting opponents, which is much closer to what you're going to find in a real fight than someone who flies backwards or crumbles when you hit them with an omote shuto... after they've attacked you with the lunge punch you knew was coming.
    You can practise a technique as much as you like and maybe it will come off cleanly, but most likely not. Either your ex-Instructor didn't explain breaking balance or simply didn't know, even on your video at 4:18 he talks about that. An important point, but appears to be missed by a lot of people.
    Agreed, the play acting by the training partner is way out of control. They should move but flying backwards is total BS.

    My point is the way techniques are practiced in the Buj, even by the people that are held to a higher standard, those mysterious Japanese Shihan, they're just not going to fucking work against someone who is 1) not throwing a pre-planned attack and 2) resisting, when you try to execute your proper technique.
    Then they are not taught correctly. Sounds like the old Rank give-away is more of a problem than I thought.
    But agreed, sounds like the techniques that those guys do look and sound like ****.

    No, sparring is not a real fight, but sparring is pressure testing where you can either make the stuff you train work or not. If you practice perfect flawless ninjutsu (or whatever you want to call it) but have to change up your technique when you spar in order to be effective then there is something wrong with the way you are training.
    Then you were practising the wrong thing. Your "Flawless Ninjutsu" should only be there to demonstrate technique and where to move and strike. It serves no other purpose. I don't know about other martial arts, but I have never seen any Martial Artist pull off perfect technique in a real fight, regardless how they practise.

    So how about this, if you still think the Buj has something to offer when practiced correctly, what exactly is it? Because even the stuff with Hatsumi looks like larping.
    You need an instructor that understands how it really is, not a plastic instructor or one that got their Shodan from watching DVD's.
    Hatsumi....yea I know....to be honest, I apply my BS filter when watching that ****. I don't know what is going on over there. Maybe he is getting old or just thinking "I can't believe that the people here believe this ****". And that's why he has a smile on his face.
    Last edited by OldShintaro; 5/29/2012 12:56am at .
  9. shinbushi is offline
    shinbushi's Avatar

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Manhattan Beach, California, United States
    Posts
    897

    Posted On:
    5/29/2012 1:05am


     Style: Muay Thai, Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I lived and trained in Japan and interpreted for both Hatssumi Sensei and Nagato Sensei for 7 years. Trained Booj from 1985 to 2010. And finally gave up on trying to 'aliven' my training. So now I train in Muay Thai, Judo, BJJ and when I can DBMA. Even in Japan it is slow mo lunge punches for uke. GET OUT NOW!!
  10. OldShintaro is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    117

    Posted On:
    5/29/2012 1:16am


     Style: Kyokushinkai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Shinbushi,

    You have a wealth of information. If I had your exposure and experience with Bujinkan I would have simply started my own Dojo correcting the BS.
    Just because something is moving in a bad direction you don't have to follow like sheep.
Page 2 of 28 FirstFirst 12 345612 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.