What I hate about Bujinkan

**OldShintaro** · Posted On: 5/28/2012 3:16pm

First I am not anybody special, I am just tired of the way things are now with Bujinkan. I have been floating around Bujinkan since 1989 and have seen Bujinkan turn to **** over that time.

1/ The way that rank is given away in Japan to westerners. It may work for Japanese, that style of promotion, but it rarely works for westerners. If I was good enough to have my own Dojo, and I'm not, people going to Japan and coming back with *magic* ranks would NOT be allowed to show it in my Dojo, until their peer Black belts thought it appropriate.

2/ The punch from 3 bloody feet away. Sheesh!!, get a grip, yes learn the technique using long stances and a slow pace, but then make it real. It used to be long stance's to the get rhythm and timing then short stance to make it real. If you cannot reach you opponents nose YOUR TOO BLOODY FAR AWAY!

3/ Promoting people to Shodan in 13 months, OMG. Whoever does that should be ashamed of themselves. They have just de-valued the rank and made everyone else look like fools. If you did that in another MA you would get the **** kicked out of you then booted out the front door of the Dojo. In my view Shodan is the start after the apprenticeship. Imagine if a builder said, "Yep your right to go kid and build houses" after going from not knowing anything to 13 months of experience.

4/ What's up with the black gi? Hatsumi learnt in a white gi, so did people in history. Get real and start wearing white gi's. Guess what, it doesn't make you a Ninja wearing a black gi.

5/ Ok, there are some Ryu within Togakure Ryu that have been proved as real. So if the rest are real, then allow people to authenticate the scrolls and translate them. It is not Ninjery to hide them, it makes people think that it is all BS.

6/ Also if Kumogakure is a concept, cool, then release the concept. Not all Shinobi scrolls are about the physical side. From what I am told, and I don't know if is true, but apparently Hatsumi owns the Iga museum. They have a heap of old scrolls. RELEASE THEM!!! So that people can translate them.

I do have some positive things to say though, some Bujinkan schools have a curriculum for getting to Shodan so that people are educated along the way with technique / skill evaluation at each level. So it takes about 3.5 years to Shodan. More realistic, than 13 months Oh My F%*$*n God!

Thanks for tolerating my rant

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 5/28/2012 3:23pm

Hello and once again, welcome to bullshido.

This is your second thread that has been started the INVESTIGATIVE forum. Here are the rules and conduct for posting in this area:
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=57547

Neither of your threads fit the criteria for this forum.

The second issue is we do not allow foul language in the titles.

The third and final issues is use the search function for Bujinkan. Bullshido search suck, but not for _ing _un, aikido, and Booj=Bujinkan.

Thanks.

**OldShintaro** · Posted On: 5/28/2012 3:25pm

Thanks for the move. My apologies for posting in the wrong area.

**OldShintaro** · Posted On: 5/28/2012 3:59pm

Also where is the Ninjutsu? As far I can see, Bujinkan is teaching a Martial Art. I have very rarely, if not at all, seen anything from the Shoninki being taught. The word Ninjutsu should not be used. Over time I have seen Bo Shuriken, a Samurai skill, and Hojojutsu...maybe Ninjutsu, but I would still say that it is a samurai skill.

**drizzt777** · Posted On: 5/28/2012 4:58pm

Hi. I left the Buj because of many of your very rants. I had been crosstraining forever and decided grappling and FMA were much more inclined to my tastes. The biggest thing is thatthe Buj is and has been losing credibility due to less than lackluster technique outside of Japan...the awarding of ranks to people who have less than lackluster technical ability...the argument that their sparring is too deadly (wth) and finally q lack of any real curriculum. Its sad because the truly good ones in the art are overshadowed by the crappiest ones (who outnumber the good ones 78-1.)

I was a member for nearly 16 years. Enough was enough.

**OldShintaro** · Posted On: 5/28/2012 6:24pm

It is unfortunate that you never saw it how it was before the BS set in. It was, in my view, a really good thing.

Further, I am not against re-creation. So learning old stuff from scrolls in my view is good and I am interested in that. I like that historical stuff. For example learning to pick the old locks from 1500's Japan. Useless today but insteresting from a historical position.
The other things people need to remember is that if you do adapt some of the old stuff to a modern context, is that you might be classed as a terrorist.

There are some seriously good people here, but, because their training is too confrontational not many attend. People these days don't want to get hit and get bruises, yet they want to know how to fight! Its like thinking you can drive a car by reading a book.

If you don't know what Ninjutsu is then have a look at Antony Cummins books:
Shoninki:
http://www.amazon.com/True-Path-Ninj...8246937&sr=8-2

Ninpiden:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Ninpiden-T...8246937&sr=8-7

If you disagree with the translation fine, read the classical Japanese version listed below for your self and provide an argument. Here is the original Classical Japanese (NOT modern Japanese) versions:
Shoninki:
http://www.amazon.com/Shoninki-Ninja...8246937&sr=8-3
Ninpiden:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Ninpiden-S...8246937&sr=8-9

If you don't like him, fine, I've seen him roasted here. But look past him to see what the Japanese people were doing in the past that they classed as Ninjutsu.

BTW I CANNOT read classical Japanese, my, modern Japanese is at a intermediate level.

**BJMills** · Posted On: 5/28/2012 6:25pm

One thing that makes this kind of criticism difficult in my mind is that the 'good stuff' i.e. the stuff demonstrated by Hatsumi himself seems so bizarre, impractical, and dependent on compliant opponents that the 'bad stuff' hardly seems much worse.

**OldShintaro** · Posted On: 5/28/2012 6:36pm

BJMills,

I have never been to Japan or personally seen Hatsumi, so I don't know if stuff is taken out of context.
I have never really "got" his teaching style when watching him on DVD. But that is probably due to my own inadequacies.

Do you have an example?

**BJMills** · Posted On: 5/28/2012 7:14pm

I'm sure if I posted this on MAP or Martial Talk I'd be crucified for not understanding the 'subtlety' of Hatsumi's movements or some crap like that but...

What part of these two old men flopping around looks remotely effective? Really, honestly and objectively how well do you see this going if someone is not falling down for you?

The thing I love the most is the slow motion replays. Like it's not unbelievable and silly enough in real time we get to see his opponent knocking himself down in slow motion.

And in case you think age is the problem here's another one...

I didn't watch past the first minute or two but really if catching a punch and throwing your opponent with your chin isn't the height of larping I'm not sure what is.

I honestly don't know if you've ever done any full contact sparring or not but if so can you honestly see anything in either of these videos, any single movement being performed by the Soke himself, possibly working with a non-compliant opponent?

Actually I'm really going about this th wrong way...

There's a mountain of crap out there but I'd love to see a video of Hatsumi doing something that looked plausible.

Then again I'd love to find a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow too.