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  1. legomepanda is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/16/2013 4:15pm


     Style: grappling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ah. Ok, the form is named after the North Korean philosophy, and you're defending it. Got it.
  2. StayGuapa95 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/17/2013 7:26am


     Style: Jeet Kune Do

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    Quote Originally Posted by Earl Weiss View Post
    This is what I posted in another thread in February:

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...ght=Earl+Weiss

    I will provide an answer. First and foremost make no mistake . I feel the NK regime is tyrannical and oppressive. However I don't know that the analogy applies between. Mein Kompf and Ju Che. (I'm a guy who won't by a VW because it was named by Hitler). Not saying it doesn't. I don't know and the reason is thus. I have not interviewed scores of South Koreans on this issue. I have spoked to SK people who are in the USA about it. They had some interesting perspectives.
    I have not spoken to any NK people about it.
    Mr. Talbot having been to SK and with closer ties to some from that country may have a better handle on that.

    I think the lessons of Ju Che apply on a couple of levels.
    1. At the most basic level it stands for man controlling his own destiny. At that level the philosophy is not bad.
    2.However, like certain basic Philosophies that are not bad in themselves like the economic ideas of communism and socialism, they can be corrupted by political tyrants for political reasons.
    In the case of ju che this is an important lesson to understand, in fact the oppressive use of the philosophy and the regime that made it the hallmark of the regime resulted in the originator of the philosophy Huwang Jang-yop defecting to SK.

    So perhaps therien lies the lesson. The name of the pattern means that man should be the master of his destiny and the person who came up with the idea controlled his destiny by getting the heck out.
    I've never spoken to any Holocaust survivors, so putting the Nazi flag on my dobok cuz I like the way it looks must be ok.
  3. kalavic is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/17/2013 1:46pm


     Style: wing chun

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Interesting. Now my curiosity is piqued, but it's unlikely to find the anwers to this until NK has been collapsed long enough for things to cool down.

    Quote Originally Posted by StayGuapa95 View Post
    I've never spoken to any Holocaust survivors, so putting the Nazi flag on my dobok cuz I like the way it looks must be ok.
    Generally the people most directly involved in charged cultural issues have the most biased, and are therefore least reliable sources of information. The swastika dates long before the Nazis, so if I wanted to know what it really meant, about the worst person I could ask would be a Holocaust survivor. That doesn't mean it would be ethical to go flashing it around them, but that doesn't mean I would be an evil or ignorant person if I were to study other cultures' use of it. Today it's not nearly as offensive as it was 50 years ago, and in another 50 years it will be even less so.

    Where the trickiness with Ju Che sets in is that it was also a product of NK (at least by the origin story I heard here, I claim ignorance), meaning that it's not so easy to draw that line. Sure there was an actual fact of how it started: what who had what in mind when it originated. The problem with history is it's just 'his story', and what really happened isn't as big of a deal as much as the end result of what it develops into and what it's perceived as.

    During my childhood the only Russian I knew well was an old guy who had defected to the US during Stalin. He would have found the cartoon 'Cheburashka' or the film 'Ivan Vassilievich Menyaet Professiyu' to be distasteful as supporting the soviet regime. I don't know a single person living in Russia now who doesn't regard those as classics, and it aint for love of Stalin. All a matter of which person you're talking to and when. As people living in democratic societies we have to understand what filters we're getting our information through. In the US we've become remarkably proficient in sucking at that.
  4. legomepanda is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/17/2013 2:25pm


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    The difference being that people are going around doing a salute to the NK regime. And then claiming it's ok because they don't know any better.

    And the hakenkruez is offensive no matter how you slice it. I would say that it is more offensive now than ever, because there is not a culture on the planet that deems it acceptable. The symbol has been used in different cultures, yes, but not as the hakenkruez.

    And I just read that Nicolae Ceauşescu was influenced by Juche. Wow.
  5. Earl Weiss is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/20/2013 2:14pm


     Style: TKD & JJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by legomepanda View Post
    Ah. Ok, the form is named after the North Korean philosophy, and you're defending it. Got it.
    If you perceve that the philosophies of Self Reliance and Self Determination are somehow uniquely North Korean than your perspective is understandable.
  6. legomepanda is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/20/2013 2:25pm


     Style: grappling

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    Quote Originally Posted by Earl Weiss View Post
    If you perceve that the philosophies of Self Reliance and Self Determination are somehow uniquely North Korean than your perspective is understandable.
    That's retarded. In both sentance structure and intended meaning. First of all, what you said there is that self reliance and determination belonging to North Korea alone is an understandable point of view.

    Are you really defending Juche?
  7. Earl Weiss is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/21/2013 6:53am


     Style: TKD & JJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by legomepanda View Post
    That's retarded. In both sentance structure and intended meaning. First of all, what you said there is that self reliance and determination belonging to North Korea alone is an understandable point of view.

    Are you really defending Juche?
    Your point is only understandable if one accepts that you perceive the concepts of Self determination and self reliance are uniquely North Korean. Understanding something does not mean you agree with it.
    I defend the philosophy of self reliance and self control. I condemn how the philosophy has been abused in NK.
  8. StayGuapa95 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/21/2013 7:22am


     Style: Jeet Kune Do

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    Quote Originally Posted by Earl Weiss View Post
    Your point is only understandable if one accepts that you perceive the concepts of Self determination and self reliance are uniquely North Korean. Understanding something does not mean you agree with it.
    I defend the philosophy of self reliance and self control. I condemn how the philosophy has been abused in NK.
    Except yu're not, white man.

    You're defending North Korean fascism. Juche is not Korean self-reliance & self-discipline. That's jagisuyang. Juche was not abused in North Korea. North Koreans were abused by Juche. You're defending the genocide of my people. Every time you do this form, you are saluting the death of millions of Koreans at the hands of the Juche regime machine.

    Saying you're defending Juche because it's about self-reliance and discipline is like saying you're defending Nazism because its just pride in German heritage.
  9. kalavic is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/21/2013 12:39pm


     Style: wing chun

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    Quote Originally Posted by StayGuapa95 View Post
    Except yu're not, white man.

    You're defending North Korean fascism. Juche is not Korean self-reliance & self-discipline. That's jagisuyang. Juche was not abused in North Korea. North Koreans were abused by Juche. You're defending the genocide of my people. Every time you do this form, you are saluting the death of millions of Koreans at the hands of the Juche regime machine.

    Saying you're defending Juche because it's about self-reliance and discipline is like saying you're defending Nazism because its just pride in German heritage.
    Just curious. Have you ever talked to North Koreans who practice Juche about how they feel about it and what they take it to mean? Do they say it symbolizes or justifies genocide in any form?
  10. DerAuslander is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/21/2013 3:19pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kalavic View Post
    Just curious. Have you ever talked to North Koreans who practice Juche about how they feel about it and what they take it to mean? Do they say it symbolizes or justifies genocide in any form?
    Have you ever spoken to a North Korean who's not a defector, period?

    Have you ever spoken to a North Korean defector?
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