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  1. jspeedy is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/25/2012 9:09pm


     Style: FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    share your basic 12 strikes

    Most FMA systems have a basic grouping of strikes. Share your basic strikes and the targets and describe the thought behind the technique.

    Example: In my lineage of Balintawak there are 12 basic strikes and 12 full power strikes (although the system uses many other striking techniques).

    Basic 12: The strikes are delivered at first as punches. By first controlling/focusing on the hand the practitioner can better control where the stick follows. The Balintawak practitioner focuses on hitting the target with his fist. Later the strikes can turn into flicking strikes using the tip or strikes with the middle of the stick and even butt strikes utilizing the punyo, but initially the strikes are focused as a punch and control of the stick is the emphasis.

    Assuming the fighter is holding the stick with his right hand the strikes go as follows:.... 1) Punch to the opponents left jaw -from right side 2)punch to the opponents right jaw from left side3) punch to the opponents right ribs or elbow if the elbow covers the rib-from left side 4) punch to the opponents left rib/elbow-from right side 5) poke (thrust) to the opponents abdomen-from right side 6) thrust to the opponents right shoulder region- from left side7) thrust to the opponents left shoulder region- from right side 8) punch to opponents left knee-from right side 9) punch to opponents right knee-from left side 10) thrust to opponents right eye-from left side 11) thrust to opponents left eye-from right side 12)straight punch to opponents chin-from right side.

    The full power strikes of the system follow a similar matrix to the basic 12 except most of the strikes follow through from the left to the right side of the practitioner. I can describe the power strikes if this thread catches on.

    My main interest in starting this thread is to see how FMA targets differ. In the Serrada I've been practicing, the basic strikes are similiar except the #1 and #2 strikes are to the collar bones instead of jaw. As well, there isn't as much of an emphasis on strikes so I'm not sure how the remainder of the strikes differ I've been focusing mainly on strikes 1-5 and the counters.

    Tell me about your targets and how your system views them.
    Last edited by jspeedy; 5/25/2012 9:13pm at .
  2. Fuzzy is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/26/2012 4:22am


     Style: FMA/MMA/HEMA noob

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok, disclaimer before I say anything, I've now had about 5-6 classes of FMA and before that my only exposure to stick was through JKD and one class in Ndonga (Xhosa[African]) stick fighting, where I didn't learn any angles.

    However, my white belt understanding of the Doce Pares Multi-Style 12 strikes as taught to me are:

    A) With a Stick:

    From right lead stance

    1. Forehand left temple.
    2. Backhand right temple.
    3. Forehand left neck.
    4. Backhand right neck.
    5. Palm down stab/thrust to left stomach area, below the ribs.
    6. Palm up stab/thrust to right stomach area, below the ribs.
    7. Downward diagonal to left leg (knee?)
    8. Downward diagonal to right leg (knee?)
    9. Palm down thrust to left chest (still a bit shaky on exact target).
    10. Palm up thrust to right chest (still a bit shaky on exact target).
    11. Straight down to top of head.
    12. Slight diagonal to a point between 2 and 11.

    In sinawali and twirling I've also learned jabs to the general face area, upward diagonals to ribs and chin and under-chin thrusts.

    B) There are also 12 angles of stabbing with a knife but I find I can't remember them all just at the moment, so rather than look like an idiot I'm going think about it for a while and edit this later.
  3. jspeedy is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/27/2012 10:55am


     Style: FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the reply fuzzy. In Serrada my instructor explains that the strikes are more to a zone than a specific point, so if you're not 100% on your targets that's probably okay for a newb. By zones I take it that my instructor means a #1 strike can basically be to anywhere on the opponents upper left side be it temple, chin, neck, collar bone ect. Of course, I think it's good practice to pick a specific point and to be able to put your stick there. You want to know where your target is not just swinging in a general area but you can use the same angle of attack and direct it to many different targets. I just realized what i'm saying is probably obvious to most FMAers but if you're not familiar with FMA you might have learned something.
  4. Fuzzy is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/27/2012 11:26am


     Style: FMA/MMA/HEMA noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jspeedy View Post
    Thanks for the reply fuzzy. In Serrada my instructor explains that the strikes are more to a zone than a specific point, so if you're not 100% on your targets that's probably okay for a newb. By zones I take it that my instructor means a #1 strike can basically be to anywhere on the opponents upper left side be it temple, chin, neck, collar bone ect. Of course, I think it's good practice to pick a specific point and to be able to put your stick there. You want to know where your target is not just swinging in a general area but you can use the same angle of attack and direct it to many different targets. I just realized what i'm saying is probably obvious to most FMAers but if you're not familiar with FMA you might have learned something.
    Thanks jspeedy, that makes a lot of sense.

    The Doce Pares stuff is definitely a lot more precise than what I've done before, but I can see how its helpful to have a specific "ideal" target in mind and I suppose it makes practicing specific "do X vs Y" stuff like abecedario much easier when you have a specific angle to work with.

    On the knife angles, I think they are:

    Icepick:
    1. Left chest stab
    2. Right chest stab
    3. Left lower rib stab
    4. Right lower rib stab

    Switch to "normal" grip
    5. "Shank" beneath left ribs
    6. "Shank" beneath right ribs
    7. Left throat
    8. Right throat
    9. Left chest stab
    10. Right chest stab

    Back to icepick.
    11. Left collarbone stab
    12. Right collarbone stab
  5. wikidbounce is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2012 10:52pm


     Style: Sticks & Jits & Fritz

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I started with Inosanto/Lacoste JKD Kali and had a hard time adapting when changing to Doce Pares.

    One method I really liked way Hock Hochheim simplified it with clock angles, some sort of military theory of the clock face being a visual ingrained in our sub-concious. So if you come from no training or are used to the angles from a particular system you can pick it up straight away.

    You can say Twelve o'clock strike to the head without having to stop and think what angle Twelve is.

    I still pause to think with Doce Pares because the JKD angles are the first I learned.
  6. Fuzzy is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/28/2012 6:59am


     Style: FMA/MMA/HEMA noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Out of interest, which version of Doce Pares do you train in? Are your 12 angles the same as mine?
  7. wikidbounce is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/28/2012 9:35pm


     Style: Sticks & Jits & Fritz

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    Out of interest, which version of Doce Pares do you train in? Are your 12 angles the same as mine?
    Cacoy Canetes 12 strikes as I know them, (it's been a few years and I've done other things to muddy my recollection, someone may need to correct me).

    1. Rumpida (12 O'clock) Downward strike to Crown (caveman strike)2. (9 O'clock) Abanico to Left Temple (shoulder for practice)3. (3 O'clock) Abanico to Right Temple4. Left Rumpida (7 O'clock) uppercut to Ribs5. Right Rumpida (4 O'clock) uppercut to Ribs6. Left Plancada (9 O'clock) to Left Elbow/Hips7. Right Plancada (3 O'clock) to Right Elbow/Hips8. Left Reversal Crosada (10 O'clock) to Left Knee/Thigh (I've seen some people crouch to get low for a 9 O'clock but I remember it more as a diagonal, each to their own).9. Right Reversal Crosada (2 O'clock) to Right Knee10. Left Sungkiti to the Left Eye/neck (backhand thrust/hook)11. Right Sungkiti to the Right Eye/neck (forehand thrust/hook)12. Sungkiti to Solar Plexus (Jam Up or Straight Lunge can't remember)

    Edit: Crap - I'll reformat that when I get a chance.
  8. wikidbounce is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2012 12:51am


     Style: Sticks & Jits & Fritz

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    New Post as I can't edit the previous post.

    Quote Originally Posted by wikidbounce View Post


    1. Rumpida (12 O'clock) Downward strike to Crown (caveman strike)
    -----------------------

    2. (9 O'clock) Abanico to Left Temple (shoulder for practice)

    3. (3 O'clock) Abanico to Right Temple
    ---

    4. Left Rumpida (7 O'clock) uppercut to Ribs

    5. Right Rumpida (4 O'clock) uppercut to Ribs
    -----------------------

    6. Left Plancada (9 O'clock) to Left Elbow/Hips

    7. Right Plancada (3 O'clock) to Right Elbow/Hips
    ---

    8. Left Reversal Crosada (10 O'clock) to Left Knee/Thigh (I've seen some people crouch to get low for a 9 O'clock but I remember it more as a diagonal, each to their own).

    9. Right Reversal Crosada (2 O'clock) to Right Knee
    -----------------------

    10. Left Sungkiti to the Left Eye/neck (backhand thrust/hook)

    11. Right Sungkiti to the Right Eye/neck (forehand thrust/hook)
    ---

    12. Sungkiti to Solar Plexus (Jam Up or Straight Lunge can't remember)
    Last edited by wikidbounce; 5/29/2012 1:15am at .
  9. tim_stl is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2012 10:36am


     Style: fma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The basic strikes in Garimot Arnis are only five (cinco teros):

    1 - downward forehand diagonal (buhat araw)
    2 - upward backhand diagonal (aldabis)
    3 - upward forehand diagonal (saboy)
    4 - downward backhand diagonal (bartikal)
    5 - thrust (sak-sak)

    The targets are not specific, because they vary with the situation and the weapon. The theory is simply that all strikes of any angle fall into one of those categories.

    Also, the clock system of labeling strikes is an old one in FMA. Sometimes called relos teros, sometimes orasan.


    Tim
  10. Chili Pepper is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/29/2012 11:03am


     Style: Siling Labuyo Arnis

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Presently I teach 11 angles, although I've been playing with the idea of cutting that down further:

    #1 - right shoulder to left hip
    #2 - left shoulder to right hip
    #3 - horizontal forehand
    #4 - horizontal backhand
    #5 - upward thrust
    #6 - inward thrust
    #7 - outward thrust
    #8 - backhand uppercut
    #9 - forehand uppercut
    #10 - outward hooking thrust
    #11 - inward hooking thrust

    They're arranged from most useful/takes the least setup to least useful/takes the most setup.
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