Libre Fighting Systems. Anyone framiliar with this group?

[HereBeADragon]

Stumbled across these guys via facebook and couldn't find them on here. Looks like most of the FMA knife fighting I see but things seem a little off, no names of the instructors or their qualifications that I could find on their site and their locations are "secret" (you have to ask them for the location they don't make it freely available). I know we have a few FMAesqe people in San Diego so I wanted to know if anyone down there is framiliar with these guys.
http://www.wix.com/librefighting/librefighting#!

#!

[CrackFox]

I don't know anything about these guys, but there are several possible reasons they don't want to give out their address. (Some more legit than others.)

They could be renting space after-hours from Bob's Family Fun TKD, and Bob might not be crazy about having his palace becoming too associated with knife fighting. They could be renting space in a place that's not really set up for people to wander in, eg there's no reception, or possibly it's just a basement or whatever. There's also the possibility that they're just doing this to sound cool.

[slamdunc]

http://www.wix.com/librefighting/librefighting

They offer training by video (DISTANCE TRAINING)
The new LFDLP is not just a guide to learning the movements of Libre Fighting, it is a comprehensive exploration of the history, culture, customs, movements and ideology of Libre Fighting. HOW THE PROGRAM WORKS: Participants must be at least 18 years old!
The participant will film themselves working the material in each lesson and upload it to their Youtube account as a PRIVATE video, then SHARE it with the LFDLP account. At the completion of Phase One, the Participant will be given the option to move into Phase Two of the LFDLP. At the Completion of Phase Two, the participant will be given the option of training privately here in San Diego (Phase Three) to become a Certified Libre Fighting Trainer. Libre Fighting Trainers are authorized to run their own Libre Fighting Chapter and promote students up to instructor status within their organization.

[johnny_cage]

Just wondering if someone would mind explaining the methadology of this system? From the video nearly all the examples are demonstrations of techniques on a one-strike compliant opponent (wondering if this is trained differently then shown in video/ if the vid was just for examples) and in the clips of that appeared to be students sparring in the system- they BOTH delivered MANY fatal blows to each other. From the video the attacks seem to be quite effective- but i m wondering what your perspective on defense/counter or against an attacker as committed as you are.

The student sparring examples STARTED to make me feel a little better about all the compliant examples . . . until the sparring showed that they would both have fillet'd each other within the first 5 seconds. So i am wondering in a non-compliant sparring/ real application what does your system teach/ encourage to ensure you arent dead? (even if your attacker is as well)

[Tetsumusha]

I don't have any personal experience with them (I tried contacting them to get more information about the Glendale, AZ location so I could check it out, but I never heard back) but a couple guys on a knife forum I frequent train in it--one of them is a trainer for his law enforcement department (federal law enforcement, I think) so one would assume that if he sees value in it then it must not be totally useless. From what I've seen, they seem to favor a "scythe grip" (blade down and facing you) for a more of their knife work than a lot of styles do, and their method seems to be based on carving their opponent up a little on the way to stabs to vital areas--I assume that is going to look very messy whenever you have two people sparring with that exact same methodology.

f they ever get back to me so I can check them out, I can report back, but I don't have much knife fighting experience.

[johnny_cage]

I just mean in the sense that; If its a knife fighting system (that seems to promote itself as being effective in knife on knife situations) I would VERY much like to see examples where using it doesnt almost instantly cause you to die. In the compliant examples the only reason they are successful is the opponent takes one step/stab and freezes.

Then in ALL the examples of sparring all the offensive blade work seemed to lead to several fatal counters. (and the flip side- NO defensive/ counter knife work to block redirect- step away or prevent neck chest and other vitals being attacked and countered when YOU are attacking)

[Permalost]

There's a BJJ black belt and law enforcement trainer here who has libre in his style field. Can't remember his name though.

JFrom the video nearly all the examples are demonstrations of techniques on a one-strike compliant opponent

Well to be fair, the first countermove in those examples usually seems to be an entry that prohibits them from attacking further (like when he steps underneath and attacks, he's trapping the weapon arm between his shoulder and arm, as well as stepping to the outside and stepping too close), and while that's happening he's also throwing an attack that's likely to stun for a moment at least.

and in the clips of that appeared to be students sparring in the system- they BOTH delivered MANY fatal blows to each other.

Yeah, knife sparring in any style tends to have that. I'm just glad to see them sparring, and a lot of the knife sparring you see out there is 99% hand tag.

From the video the attacks seem to be quite effective- but i m wondering what your perspective on defense/counter or against an attacker as committed as you are.

Knive vs knife with 2 committed attackers is a dicey proposition no matter what system they use, so inflicting the most trauma the fastest and taking every opportunity without hesitation seems key. They seem to train this way. At 1:33 we see some dudes sparring, and when one loses his knife and goes after it, the other guy immediately starts stabbing him in the back. Although very straightforward, that's a reaction a lot of people don't have with or without training. Many would hesitate, and/or let them pick up their knife before continuing.

The student sparring examples STARTED to make me feel a little better about all the compliant examples . . . until the sparring showed that they would both have fillet'd each other within the first 5 seconds. So i am wondering in a non-compliant sparring/ real application what does your system teach/ encourage to ensure you arent dead? (even if your attacker is as well)

The tricky part is that if you knife spar totally defensively and your partner does too, what you end up with doesn't really look like reality, and you probably won't be comfortable with that close continuous pressure that they use here, so your hand tag skills may be wasted.

You might note that in a boxing match, someone may take a good punch 5 seconds into the fight. So, you might conclude that boxing is useless, but it would be kinda silly to say that.

I just mean in the sense that; If its a knife fighting system (that seems to promote itself as being effective in knife on knife situations) I would VERY much like to see examples where using it doesnt almost instantly cause you to die. In the compliant examples the only reason they are successful is the opponent takes one step/stab and freezes.

Then in ALL the examples of sparring all the offensive blade work seemed to lead to several fatal counters. (and the flip side- NO defensive/ counter knife work to block redirect- step away or prevent neck chest and other vitals being attacked and countered when YOU are attacking)

I think you make a valid point. The only thing I'd say is that to learn how to defend against a weapon attack, you have to "die" lots and lots of times in training. So, by constantly dying, they're actually following the right training methodology in that way, even if their technique is incorrect. If they keep sparring, and finding ways to link drilling and sparring together, they'll likely evolve and come out on top.

[Lindz]

There's a BJJ black belt and law enforcement trainer here who has libre in his style field. Can't remember his name though.

Python something?

[Diesel_tke]

Yeah, knife training is a sketchy situation no matter how you do it. We train a lot of knife and we do a bunch of different types of drills. Some of them are similar to the one you are talking about in that we die a lot. Mostly you are trying to hone your instincts to respond appropriately to attacks. While also learning to attack properly. Even though you are taking kill shots, you are still learning.

We do blast rounds, where basically anything goes. When you first do them, it ends up with you just getting killed really quick. But over time you get a little better at responding to them. Sometimes you don't die. :)

A lot of training turns into basically slapsies with knives. But it gets your reflexes and footwork a lot sharper.

The only thing I didn't like on their web site was the "Reaper Method" and that they say it is ideal of military, law enforcement, and anyone looking to learn a simple but devastating knife system. I personally find this type of knife work to be extremely frustrating, unless you are taking someone by surprise.

Also the street boxing that includes headbutts, biting, and flesh manipulations. I don't know what flesh manipulations are, but sounds like pinching to me. Biting in an incounter is really stupid, and very risky. Plus it is pretty hard to justify in court.

If their training is alive, then it's probably not too bad.

I found a review of their stuff here:

http://www.piperknife.com/html/libre_street_edge.html

It is probably biased and I don't know anything about the reviewed, but it at least gives you some idea.

[ChenPengFi]

Python something?

Yep, Team Python.
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/member.php?u=96153