232634 Bullies, 3948 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 11 to 20 of 20
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Permalost is offline
    Permalost's Avatar

    pro nonsense self defense

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    12,683

    Posted On:
    5/21/2012 10:52am

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jspeedy View Post
    Sounds good, can you describe the bayonet grip I'm not sure I'm picturing it correctly? This technique reminds of a DBMA vid I saw where Crafty referenced swat club tactic where you grab your weapon one hand on each end and shove the chest of the opponents with the middle of the stick.
    Bayonet grip- get a standard hammer grip on your stick, then grasp towards the tip of your stick with the other hand, both thumbs point the same way.

    Gripping the stick above or underneath your opponent's hand can lead to different leverages, but either way you should be able to torque the wrist/hand into a position where it can't grip. There's a high dan aikidoka/law enforcement trainer in my group, and he's shown a good deal of baton material where a wide 2 handed grip is used.

    The danger is that while you're going to grab and dislodge your stick, your alive hand has died, and you may be in the line of fire for a left handed strike to the face or check. Thus the note above that in the bayonet grip the part between your hands should act like a shield. If they're grabbing the tip in the bayonet grip, you can circle over into a wristlock-type motion (your 2 hands vs his 1) which will either turn them so they can't strike with their stick, or just make them let go as soon as their leverage is poor (more likely)

    Oh, another odd thing: when I used to stickfight before I got into FMA, we would sometimes end up in a mutual tip-grabbing (lol), and my favorite thing to do in that situation is jerk both my arms back while delivering a This-Is-Sparta kick to the chest.
  2. Diesel_tke is offline
    Diesel_tke's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    4,005

    Posted On:
    5/21/2012 12:09pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Bayonet grip- get a standard hammer grip on your stick, then grasp towards the tip of your stick with the other hand, both thumbs point the same way.

    Gripping the stick above or underneath your opponent's hand can lead to different leverages, but either way you should be able to torque the wrist/hand into a position where it can't grip. There's a high dan aikidoka/law enforcement trainer in my group, and he's shown a good deal of baton material where a wide 2 handed grip is used.

    The danger is that while you're going to grab and dislodge your stick, your alive hand has died, and you may be in the line of fire for a left handed strike to the face or check. Thus the note above that in the bayonet grip the part between your hands should act like a shield. If they're grabbing the tip in the bayonet grip, you can circle over into a wristlock-type motion (your 2 hands vs his 1) which will either turn them so they can't strike with their stick, or just make them let go as soon as their leverage is poor (more likely)

    Oh, another odd thing: when I used to stickfight before I got into FMA, we would sometimes end up in a mutual tip-grabbing (lol), and my favorite thing to do in that situation is jerk both my arms back while delivering a This-Is-Sparta kick to the chest.

    When I was on the baton squad, this is the primary way we were taught to hold the baton. We drilled all kinds of crazy scenerios with it, and how to keep control and not lose the baton. It was lots of fun, but we were mostly using it in lines and against people who don't have any weapons.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
  3. Permalost is offline
    Permalost's Avatar

    pro nonsense self defense

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    12,683

    Posted On:
    5/21/2012 2:12pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel_tke View Post
    It was lots of fun, but we were mostly using it in lines and against people who don't have any weapons.
    therefore,
    -make sure your opponent is unarmed
    -make sure to have an ally to your right and left
  4. Diesel_tke is offline
    Diesel_tke's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    4,005

    Posted On:
    5/21/2012 3:00pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    therefore,
    -make sure your opponent is unarmed
    -make sure to have an ally to your right and left
    Yep, that may as well be right out of the training manual. If the oppenent is armed, we stood around while the munition squad lanched tear gas into the mix. Then we just walked around putting zip-cuffs on everyone.

    But training with the batons was fun. We would pad up and square off with them while the "attacker" tried to take your baton. It got a little ugly some times.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
  5. selfcritical is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    austin, tx
    Posts
    2,428

    Posted On:
    5/21/2012 5:45pm


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Assuming he's close enough for clinch range, and not grabbing at the distance where his hand can just reach your stick.

    Step in with your off-hand, taking a deep overhook on his weapon arm.

    Take head placement with your forehead against his jawline.

    Take the trapped weapon, turn palm up. Punch this hand toward his chest. Your elbow should be close to your chest at the top of the motion. DO NOT FLARE YOUR ELBOW. As you punch forward, shift that hip forward as if throwing a kick.

    Immediately pull the weapon back, as if making a vertical strike, pulling your hip back with the same motion. Spiral away from his non-weapon arm while repeating vertical looping strikes to make sure the far arm is covering. Once you have space between your hips, disengage your overhook to go back to long range.
  6. FHoppy is offline
    FHoppy's Avatar

    Sardonic or Sarcastic?

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    1,060

    Posted On:
    5/21/2012 6:05pm

    supporting member
     Style: Filipino Kun Tao, Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I assume this is club-only if he's grabbing the tip of your weapon. If it's standing clench range, let go of both sticks, head butt him, and jam your thumbs into his eye sockets.
    Quote Originally Posted by Canuckyokushin
    I would so do Buttsecks.
  7. selfcritical is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    austin, tx
    Posts
    2,428

    Posted On:
    5/21/2012 8:00pm


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tim_stl View Post
    Well, then the good thing about him grabbing the end of the stick is that you have a lot of freedom to move your stick hand. There are a couple of simple ways to rip the stick out of his grip that involve big circles to generate a lot of torque - hard to describe, easy to show, but I'll try one. Assuming you're a righty, by your avatar picture, and that he grabs the end of the stick in a way that if you were to let go, he would have a 'normal' grip on the stick (not a reversed one) - lift the punyo up (like doing a roof block, cross block, or whatever you call a tip-down block against a forehand or overhead strike), then make a big clockwise circle (like doing a downward backhand redondo, or a forehand strike to his left leg) real hard. The goal is to twist it out of his grip, but it's easy to get a hit to his leg or continue through with a redondo if you are successful. The particular path your hand takes depends on the position of his hand, so that's another reason it's hard to describe. This actually works better against people that are taller than you.


    Tim

    I somehow missed that you had already written the response i was desribing
  8. Goddels is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    44

    Posted On:
    5/23/2012 9:24am


     Style: FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One of the things you mentioned at the beginning is that you are only going at about 50%. This often requires an adjustment of your sensibilities regarding contact stick fighting. You know you are only goinmg this much and it probably affects your aggression and "fighting spirit". You are making what you do (as the experienced one) suffer to allow him the room to grow. This person is doing what comes naturally, the stuff that works for him. You have to make it uncomfortable for him to do it or change the strategy that you use that gets you into this predicament. I prefer engaging at the close quarter by striking to the low outside (left or right) in a flanking attack, alternately umbrella-ing into a thrust to the abdomen or slash across the legs. When I have attained that position I find that I can tie up my opponent (and his weapon), attack the legs, and effect a take down or break off the attack and regroup.

    Basically, he can't grab what isn't there. Don't leave your stick where he can find it.
  9. Mordschlag is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    193

    Posted On:
    5/23/2012 2:27pm


     Style: ARMA, Antagonistics

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    People don't normally grab my stick like this (omg) but here are two things I've done before.

    Assuming the person is right handed he is grabbing it with his off-hand, the left. If he does so you can grab your own stick (bayonet style) and wheel into his left side as you smash your pommel\right-fist into the left side of his head. He will either disengage your stick (due to lack of leverage and a desire to keep safe) or you will out-leverage him and strike him in the before-mentioned manner while exiting his striking area (since you now on his side and nearly behind him).

    Additionally you could go bayonet grip into a left hanging ward or even a left vertical ward (either way you defend your left side from his weapon as he'll be hitting you from his right), which you can slip under\through to get an under-hook on his right arm. Obviously you would let go of your stick with the left hand when you are able to under-hook him with your left arm, if you decide to bayonet grip your stick. From there you can back-heel him or do some other throw.
  10. RynoGreene is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    236

    Posted On:
    6/07/2012 5:45pm


     Style: FMA/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We practice stick grab defenses a fair amount. Let's see if I can break it down.

    1. Don't let him tug you off balance after he grabs it. Immediately yank the stick back to your side. This also tends to **** up his footwork, and might pop it free.

    2. Punch him with your left, hiding behind your shoulder. (If you are in a right lead, step forward with your left to collapse the range and let you make contact with the punch.) This will serve to put him on the defensive, and will also minimize damage if he was quick enough to attempt a strike immediately after the grab. An alternative to the punch, is to just check him in the head, pushing him off balance. This should all be done almost simultaneously with your yank in step 1.

    3. Rather than retract your stiff jab, just drop your hand to your stick, switch to bayonet/riot batton two handed grip, and step to your right, avoiding entanglement or further incoming strikes.

    4. With your two handed grip established, do a twisting row-your-boat motion while you are angling out to your right and switching your lead to a right lead. This switch to the outside, right lead is vital. If you're in close, and screwing around with two hands on the stick in a left lead, you are blind to attacks, and can easily get you back taken. So get away from his primary weapon after you land your punch and get your double handed grip.

    5. Rowing specifics: If he's got the very end of the stick, you'll need to circle your stick counter clockwise, maintaining tension to get him in a compromised position, with his palm up. Then begin to start a rowing type motion, as if you're paddling a kayak. If he's got it somewhere mid-stick, with you having both ends, just start rowing. I like a bit of a decisive snap down in my row once I see his grip is compromised after I row over the top. Grip will break, and you should be far away from his stick hand.

    6. Slide on by to the right, and hit him as you exit if you prefer to regain largo range. Or, after the grip breaks you'll be quite close to him, so lean in and bump him off balance with your shoulder or elbow. Then proceed countering at medio.

    If this is too difficult to follow, I'll try to whip up a video at some point. I've used this technique in sparring and tournaments with excellent success.
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.