Eurogeddon

[scipio]

I can't help thinking that although the situation with Grece is serious, what until recently seems to get less press activitity is that Spain seems to be on a knife edge of defaulting/banking collapse. The downgrading of the 16 Spanish banks was a blow for Spain but what is more worrying is that the cost of borrowing for Spain is approaching the stage where Spain just cannot afford to borrow anymore and will require a bailout that cannot be afforded by the Eurozone.

If Spain defaults then the Eurozone is completely fucked. More fucked than it is now.

Huge shame - I thought that at the time the Euro was a great idea and the UK should join. I'm glad to say I'll have to admit I was completely wrong.

[judoka_uk]

Huge shame - I thought that at the time the Euro was a great idea and the UK should join. I'm glad to say I'll have to admit I was completely wrong.

Gordon Brown did such colossal damage to this country he really should be in the Tower, but he is the reason we aren't in the Euro right now and for that I guess we should be a teensy bit grateful to him.

[Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs]

That might work if you all agree to a fiscal union.

Otherwise you're doomed to the same madness that is political union without fiscal union.

The reality is that the constituent peoples of Europe do not want to cede sovereignty to supranational organisations. They want to influence national govt. at a national level. The EU is a mirage exploiting the hopes and dreams of socialist pan-Europeans.

It is anti-democratic, anti-economic recovery and anti-free speech.

Repudiate and reject it at every opportunity you have.

In 1952 the conditions were perfect to fuse the three buffer countries to one on fiscal, militairy, education, social and political level.
It was only 7 years after WWII, so that generation knew the horrors of war on their turf, knew the complete ineffectivity that 3 mini-countries were on the political (and other) scale against Germany, French and the U.K. in Europe.

Nowadays these conditions aren't there anymore, it's even the complete opposite with Belgium tearing itself apart into Flanders and Wallonie, so I don't expect any chance on restarting the BeNeLux.
Yet 28,500,000 stand stronger than 11,200,000 (Belgium) +16,800,000 (The Netherlands) +500,000 (Luxembourg) against 62,000,000 (U.K.), 65,000,000 (France) or 81,000,000 (Germany).

[Cullion]

I would like to maintain tariff-free trade and visa-less travel with continental Europe, but I certainly I don't think we need to share an expensive and unaccountable bureaucratic elite to stay on good terms, and I voted for the UKIP candidate at the last general election after checking that he personally had no ties to groups like the BNP in his background.

The choice now is between Greece leaving the Euro (possibly followed by one or two other 'club med' countries), and immediate cessation of German resistance to inflating the Euro to paper over Greek fiscal problems.

I don't know which will happen. I'm told that the latter change of position by the German political class could cause some kind of constitutional crisis and/or civil disorder in Germany, but I don't speak German and I've never spent any real time there.

I have seen extraordinary, blinkered, determination on the part of the pro-EU political class to keep the project on the rails against all objections from the voters in their home countries many times in the past. Who knows ?

Note: Both scenarios mentioned above involve sharp devaluation of the Euro.

[Vieux Normand]

Forcing the uniformity of the EU project onto the constituent peoples of the EU has led 18% of the French people voting for the far right...

As one of the far-right-voting French, I can assert that--whether or not EU machinations may have initiated the surge in far-right support--they have certainly brought that support to the surface and magnified it considerably.

The current EU "culture" has encouraged any European with either a work ethic or an entrepreneurial nature to either suppress these characteristics ("get along by going along") or to leave the EU because their numbers are so low compared to the horde of freeloaders weighing down that part of the world.

In short, the EU is undermining its sole purpose - eradicating nationalism.

...and doing a fine job of creating a necessary backlash. For that, one might almost commend it, were it not for the damage caused along the way.

[Hiro Protagonist]

We've paid lipservice to liberty and democracy, but at each turn have acquiesced to dictatorial illiberal EU project.

And whose fault is that?

We, the people, have let us get numbed by media and money, and the promise that we can be rockstars.

Yeah, times are dire, and if we don't take care, we will be in 20 years where our grandfathers were a hundred years ago.

And yet I bet everybody here will do one of three things tonight INSTEAD of trying to make the world better: Watch sports, get drunk, or play videogames.

Sounds loaded, but it is really so.


Who we are:




Who we should be:

[Cullion]

Enough revolutionary hyperbole, spaniard.

What's your plan ?

[Nefron]

Our Great Leader says that the EU is the light.

EU is the only holy path.

EU is our ultimate goal.

We must strive for the EU with every part of our being.

We must appease the EU for them to take us in under their wing, and save us from our barbaric, genocidal nature.

We shall be true Europeans, enlightened and civilized. Tolerant and multicultural.

Our economy will magically come to life, our industry will hum and produce GDP and green environment.

Oh Great Leader, guide us to prosperity.

[judoka_uk]

Our Great Leader says that the EU is the light.

EU is the only holy path.

EU is our ultimate goal.

We must strive for the EU with every part of our being.

We must appease the EU for them to take us in under their wing, and save us from our barbaric, genocidal nature.

We shall be true Europeans, enlightened and civilized. Tolerant and multicultural.

Our economy will magically come to life, our industry will hum and produce GDP and green environment.

Oh Great Leader, guide us to prosperity.

Just a minor tweak, hope you don't mind.

[Matt Phillips]

The problem with the EU is that it's too big. Europe natually falls into smaller unions (BeNeLux, Nordic bloc, etc.) The United States is a cultural-linguistic monopole who paid for her strong union in a devastating civil war. Careful what you wish for or you may find yourselves finally united, planning the reconstruction of your smoldering cities as One People. In English. Worked for us.